Todd: 0:20

Welcome to episode three of Ash and Iron. I've got with me our third guest and I'm really excited about this guest sitting in front of me right now. His name is Michael Brandt and I said that right. Yes, is that correct? And I know nothing about this guy, which is so cool, because the last two guests I've kind of known I don't know you, which is awesome.

Michael: 0:40

Yeah, welcome, stranger.

Todd: 0:42

Yeah, welcome to my house. Yeah, thank you. So all right, yeah, You've heard. You've listened to the other two episodes, I'm assuming?

Michael: 0:49

Not in totality, okay, just bits and pieces.

Todd: 0:52

Yes, okay, so yeah. Basically, this is your episode. I want you to be able to have a platform to tell your story, but I'd like to start off, just for my sake and for everybody else's sake. Who is Michael Brandt?

Michael: 1:05

So Michael Brandt is a convicted felon, a drug addict, an alcoholic, and that's been in recovery for a long time, and he also owns a small mobile welding and custom fabrication shop by the name of Garage Bound LLC in Chattanooga.

Todd: 1:21

Chattanooga. Were you born and raised in Chattanooga?

Michael: 1:23

I was not born and raised in Chattanooga. I was born somewhere in Oregon I don't really remember which town Cottage Grove, oregon or something crazy like that and then I transplanted here after being released from federal prison in 2006.

Todd: 1:37

Like we're just going to get right into it.

Michael: 1:41

Where do you come from and why are you here, right?

Todd: 1:44

all right, so okay, I guess let's start there. Um federal prison. Yeah, everything was a lot of fun until it wasn't okay, so can let's let's talk about the leading up to that. How did, how did what's transpired to get?

Michael: 2:02

you there? Oh sure. So, um, I probably need to go back to when, like age 10, when my parents divorced. Do that? So, uh, age 10, my parents divorced and I lived with mom and my two sisters and dad wasn't in the home. He was, I don't know, 20 minutes away or so, and, um, just just due to like my mom doing mom stuff and my dad doing dad stuff, you know, I had entirely too much free reign.

Michael: 2:26

So, from like the time I was 10 on, you know, mom was working on getting, uh, going to school to be a flight attendant, you know, and dad was building a business in another city, and so, really, it was me and my two sisters and it was me going to do whatever I wanted to do all day long, as long as I was back, like some, somewhere close to dark, like, like, um, you know, I didn't always wake up early on enough to get to school, to catch the school bus, so I'd take off on my skateboard and sometimes make it to school, sometimes not make it to school, all the time stealing money from my mom's purse to go play video games before trying to go to school, if I made it or not, still, you know. So, um, I always hung out. I was always the youngest one in every group, right? So youngest, uh, among my siblings, youngest among my friends, and so when you're 10 years old and you're hanging out with the high school kids, you do a high school kids do, and sure that was like doing tricks on our our, on our BMXs and skateboards in the post office parking lot and smoking pot.

Michael: 3:21

And you know, we lived in a community where there was a lot of Hispanic people. So I grew up in Hispanic primarily Hispanic Hispanic community and it was real easy to get alcohol. So we would go to a store and offer somebody to buy us some beer and then we'd go like get drunk, looking at Playboys in the Blackberry bushes where we're doing our BB gun fights and passing out, and then waking up like, oh shit, I got to go home. So it was a lot of that cigarette smoking, just a lot of everything from a very young age that never really stopped until I went to prison, when I was 21 too.

Todd: 3:56

Okay, so 10 years old, you've got absolute free reign. You're basically your own parent, like you're your own adult. Am I kind?

Michael: 4:04

of correct in assuming that to agree to that, because everybody else, all the responsible adults, were putting, just from my perspective, we're off doing their own thing, sure yeah, so what was that?

Todd: 4:14

what was that school experience like at that age, like when, like you said, obviously you had trouble catching the bus some mornings, things like that. But what about in, about in school?

Michael: 4:24

In school was fine. I mean, I liked going to school, I liked PE, you know, and I had a lot of friends, and you know it was a mixed group of, you know, caucasian and Hispanic, and all that was going good until about fifth grade and they started clicking up in these little gangs and then, before you know it, they're wanting to kill each other. I'm like just playing soccer last summer. What's the problem, you know? I mean I just didn't understand that whole gang mentality. Thankfully I never got into that, because right around that same time I ended up going to live with my dad.

Todd: 4:54

Okay and all right. So your dad was 20 minutes away the whole, pretty much the whole time yeah, pretty much. And then you ended up moving in with him. Yeah, what was that transition like?

Michael: 5:05

It was different because when I moved in with him, then right after that we got my step siblings that came down from Washington state and it was the same thing as I was experiencing in Oregon. You know, older group of kids doing the older group of kids stuff smoking cigarettes, smoking pot as as often as we could get our hands on it, you know. So it was like I remember smoking pot, you know regularly. Uh, the school bus came in the mornings, like in fifth grade. You know I'd get on the bus and the older kids are coming. What's wrong with you? You can't be doing this, you know, and I'm like what's up and I don't have no problems.

Todd: 5:36

You know, yeah, yeah, interesting, all right, so you move in.

Michael: 5:43

You move in with your dad, how old were you when you moved in with him? Fifth grade, what's that? 12?, 12?, okay.

Todd: 5:48

So you went from 10 to 12. 12, you move in with dad, walk me through sort of from there until you ended up in prison. What was growing up in that environment like so?

Michael: 6:02

I have a different perspective of it now as an adult, but I really had a problem with female authority and that came with the new stepmom. You know she was like and we didn't get along and I was into all the trouble I could get into. So that automatically created friction between us and she's like your dad's working his ass off, doing everything he can to provide you a good home and you're just being a damn knucklehead and you know I didn't see it that well at the time. She was the enemy at the time, you know.

Todd: 6:29

Yeah.

Michael: 6:29

So like. But I did some good things. You know, dad installed a lot of really good things in me. Like you know, you're never going to get ahead by working for someone else. You know you can do a hustle. So, like, I started mowing lawns and weeding and, you know, the first summer I made enough to get a self-propelled lawnmower and a brand new weed eater. And you know, I'd make Christmas trees. I'd take the holly trees apart and make Christmas trees and go sell them, you know, for Christmas time.

Michael: 6:52

So I was quite endeavorous and that those early teachings, you know, basically, you know, taught me that I'd own my own business someday. Not knowing what that would be, you know, sure, but I just knew that I wouldn't work for someone else the rest of my life. But still, you know, I was in drinking, I got caught stealing. I went to juvie, I got in fighting, drinking and smoking and just whatever I could get into. So that was always up and down, whether I was grounded or not. I remember one summer I spent the entire summer in my bedroom. You know I had to visit my friends from a second story window and it was hot and I wrote a lot of sentences. I will think before I react, I will think before I react, and that shit never settled in either until I was like 25.

Todd: 7:32

Yeah, all right. So it's interesting. Right Because it sounds like in all of that there was a definite entrepreneurial spirit in there. I heard some like Robert Kiyosaki type vibes. Do you know who that is Rich?

Michael: 7:46

dad, poor dad yeah.

Todd: 7:48

So there's kind of some stuff like that, and I love that you brought that up, because I think a lot of times it's easy for people to hear someone's story, hear just the negatives and not understand that it's when you're telling a story like, yes, you're sharing the dramatic parts, because that's the parts that really hit home, but there is almost always really good stuff in there. You know, and I love that you gave that some attention Outside of just like the hustle and all that what are some of the other things that you feel like he instilled in you that, like you, still carry forward with you today?

Michael: 9:22

Always two sides to every story. I remember hearing that a lot because of through the divorce. You know, um, uh, you know hard work ethic. You know you'll never get ahead by working for someone else, um, and just just he's. You know to treat people kindly, you know, and do do the right thing by people. A lot of that stuff I was implanted in me earlier by both parents, you know, but a lot of it went away when I got so selfish, wrapped up into drug addiction that I didn't care that I was selling substances to people that destroyed their family. And I've got plenty of circumstances and instances that I participated in that kind of behavior that you know I really suffered a lot of guilt from for a lot of years.

Todd: 10:02

Yeah, I can't even imagine trying to like navigate through all that, especially at a young age. The way that you got started in it it almost seems like it created like a sense of normalcy in something that shouldn't be normal. Yeah, you know so all right. You know so all right. So your, your teen years, I'm assuming into your early 20s is where it seems like you keep kind of going down a rough road.

Michael: 10:29

Yeah, so like it wasn't all bad, you know, like when. So like a lot of it had to do with the tension between my stepmother and I, and now I know that most of most I'd say at least 80% of that is the fault of myself. You know, at the time I didn't see it like that but I ended up having to like leave my dad and step mom's home because I was actively plotting her death and you know, dad had construction equipment. I'm like, fuck, I know how to run that back. Oh, I could like knock her off and go bury her in the field, kind of stuff. And I'm like this is craziness. I got to get out of here, you know if I'm feeling like this.

Michael: 11:02

So we had some really great neighbors, you know, that didn't have like they would, they'd accept people for more of who they are and what they're into, more than my family would do. Like I couldn't go roll a joint and sit on the front porch and smoke a joint. But you know, in this other family you know that was not the worst thing that people could do. You know what I mean. So and you know, so we got into, like you know, drug dealing, just pot. You know, selling pot back and forth, and then we got into meth, and that was a lot of fun for a while, and so then it was always meth or pot, you know. And then from then, my drug of choice became methamphetamines.

Todd: 11:41

Sure. So, and I'm always curious about this and I hope you don't mind me asking I've always wondered, like, how do you go from pot to meth? And I know that sounds like such a dumb question, probably, but like, for example, like in my earlier years I've smoked pot. I've never even seen meth in person outside of just like movies and TV shows. So it's like, was somebody?

Michael: 12:05

around you doing it, or how does that work? Definitely external influence. So you're going to be who you hang out with. So if you're hanging out with folks who smoke pot and snort lines and meth, your chances of doing that are probably pretty great. So that's how it happened for me so you get into that.

Todd: 12:23

I'm assuming it's making you money to some degree.

Michael: 12:25

To some degree it was helping me stay in drugs. I'm like I'd have enough to do and sometimes I'd get behind and have to sell extra because I'd done consumed all of it at that point in my life.

Todd: 12:41

I can't imagine having that kind of stress onto my life in those years, like that's gotta be crazy. Oh, that's nothing how it turned out, though. No, all right, let's walk through that if you don't mind.

Michael: 12:52

Yeah, so after I lived with several families, you know, in our little neighborhood, then I decided it'd be a good idea to move back up to Washington State to be with my mom. And so I moved up to Washington and I was living with my mom and she and I again didn't get along, the whole female authority kind of thing. And you know, my perspective at the time is that I was a knucklehead. There was plenty of reasons to ground me, you know. So I stayed grounded a lot to be a horse caretaker, basically, you know it's like, okay, you're grounded, go clean horse stalls.

Michael: 13:20

Well, that really sucked, you know, and it's just like I felt and I was still doing meth and a little bit of acid by that time in that in that high school in Washington, and I just got super depressed and it's like I didn't see a way out and so I took a bunch of pills, right, pm, tylenol, pms or something I took like 20, or ambulance there and they I don't even remember if they took me, I think they may have taken me to the hospital pumped my stomach. But anyway, at that time school wasn't really happening real well, you know, and I was only going to school to go through the motions. I had zero interest in what was going on at school. And then I got a part-time job working with a guy that had all these great toys Like he had a Porsche and jet skis and you know a go-kart with a motorcycle engine and low-rider trucks, and he worked for the railroad.

Michael: 14:07

He was a really responsible, good guy and so I was going over there to work on the weekends and I got into a big conflict with my mom about that because she wanted me to stay and work on her farm. And so we had this huge eruption and she like eruption and I she like came in swinging one morning and she gets migraines that I get migraines. You know, she was in a bad place and, uh, she came swinging one morning. I grabbed her by the hands and I screamed in her face don't fucking touch me, don't, don't touch me, right. So that ended that I had to go live with my sister and then, living with my sister, I had to pay rent, right. So I quit, uh, school, went and told him I got to find a job. I got to to pay rent, now you know.

Michael: 14:42

So then I worked at this telemarketing place where they give you this script and you're supposed to say you're a handicapped person, you sell trash bags and shit, right, and so, yeah, it was craziness. So I did that for a little while and then I was able to move up a little further north in Washington and work for this guy full time and that was pretty fun and I had a lot more fun. You know, alcohol was never a problem. He'd buy alcohol. For me it's craziest thing. He'd buy me a couple of cases of alcohol and give me the keys to his 944.

Michael: 15:13

Porsche and tell me go have fun. Who does that? Yeah, that's crazy. He's like don't worry about the tires, we'll get more tires. Dude, I just man. I gave that car hell and it was so much fun, he'd lend me his mini truck. I didn't even have a license at the time. I don't know why he's crazy.

Todd: 15:25

How old were you when that took place?

Michael: 15:27

Well, I was like probably I don't know high school age, you know like 10th 11th, so you drop out?

Todd: 15:34

What year in school were you in I?

Michael: 15:36

think it was 11th. The smartest thing I ever did was, as soon as I dropped out, went ahead and went and got my GED. Okay. And how I did that through all that while I was getting high, and all that stuff is just still beyond how I like. How'd that happen, right? But I did, and that positively impacted me when I went to prison, Okay. So I went through all that and then I got a new girlfriend. She was a stripper and then I was a DJ at some strip clubs and that was a lot of fun too, A lot more partying. Did you have a DJ name? No, just me. No, it wasn't DJ Magic Mike, it was nothing like that. D-d-d-dj. Come get some of that good goodin' before that good goodin's gone. Next up is Sierra, right? Some crazy shit like that.

Todd: 16:24

That is the clip I'm going to advertise this episode with. People are going to be like what is going on?

Michael: 16:32

that was a lot of fun for a while and then I chased that girl to Idaho and then all the drugs and alcohol just stayed on. And then at one point in time we were doing drugs and alcohol started continuing. It just stayed on. And then at one point in that time, in there we were doing drugs and alcohol. And then she got pregnant and you know, we were both doing drugs and alcohol for the first bit of the pregnancy, which you know later on caused some effects in my son, I'm sure.

Michael: 16:54

And then we moved to like Colorado or something after the baby was born and then that didn't work out too good and I was on the run for some felony charges that I was able to later get reduced to misdemeanors, but I was like every day washing over my shoulder to make sure the guy. My whole idea was to stay out of jail long enough to watch my son be born. Sure, and that I accomplished that right, but still we never stopped really doing drugs after that. Anywhere we went, I was still there and I was the problem. No, no geographical change was able to solve my, solve my issues, because I was the problem you know, do you?

Todd: 17:34

do you feel like that statement and that's that's probably a very common thing, isn't it Like you're? You're a yes, your environment does impact you in a lot of ways, but it's almost like your environment shapes you and you kind of become something that you got to work through to a degree. Is that fair or how? How do you sort of look at that now, at the end of this?

Michael: 17:53

If you want to do drugs and alcohol, you're going to find that wherever you're at right. Sure, colorado was really hard to find meth, you know. We met up with a guy that supposedly made it and we gave him some money to supposedly make some and he went off on some tweaking spree and we never really got any, you know. So we'd substitute with, you know, beer or alcohol or you know marijuana.

Todd: 18:11

Just something.

Michael: 18:12

Something right. It's just always that hollow emptiness of something's never enough and you always need something. And I can remember vividly and you always need something. And I can remember vividly the first time I ever wanted to do drugs. I was like in third grade. We would go to the roller skating rink, you know a lot, when we were young, and our parents would take us up there and we'd roller skate, you know, and then they'd hang out in the lounge while we're not drinking or nothing, just hang out in the lounge while we're doing that activity.

Michael: 18:39

And I went into the bathroom and there was a kid maybe I don't know seventh grade or something and he's getting some pills out of a bottle. And I'm like, what's that? He's like it's drugs. Kid, you don't want it. I'm like, yeah, I want some of that, right. So I got in trouble at the roller skating rink at that time for feeding cardboard into the change maker to play video games. I'd steal money out of that thing. So then I had to internal feeling of that. I wanted to do that and so I did that for quite some time.

Todd: 19:11

Yeah, it's interesting and it's like growing up too with your mom and your dad, and just that situation, I'm sure, creates an internal struggle, naturally by itself, without any other factors involved. You know, and I know that from personal experience myself Um, like I grew up in a, in a family that was that was divorced from. I don't remember my parents being married to each other, like it was like I was young whenever they divorced and uh, remarried. So I just grew up in two families and I remember them being polar opposites of one another in terms of like rules all day over here and nothing, no rules at all over here.

Michael: 19:48

Yeah.

Todd: 19:48

So I mean, I know that definitely played a part in my life, but all right, so you are you now at this point you now have a son, right, yep, walk me through that. Did that change anything?

Michael: 20:04

Well, we got our shit together for a while, even though I was on the run and it just all seemed really temporary because it could be gone at any minute, you know. So, from uh, from, from colorado, I think, we moved to uh, alabama with uh, with my, my girlfriend's parents, and were there for several years and then got hooked on crack, found crack, cocaine, right that's in alab Alabama.

Michael: 20:25

Oh, that's in Alabama. Yeah, couldn't find meth, didn't really find pot. Much Alcohol was always there and that was always prevalent. And that was a big problem with my son's mother is that she'd get drunk and she's ready to fight like a man, you know. So that was an issue, you know, and um, but we found crack cocaine and that was a lot of fun for a while until it wasn't and I had a decent job, actually working at a bridge company operating heavy equipment and um, welding. You know, before I even really knew how to weld, I was just I could get out there and I'd do it, you know, it's like I could do this and uh give me a torch.

Todd: 20:57

I've seen this on TV.

Michael: 20:58

Yeah, there was some kind of special job coming up with that bridge company where we had to be down in a hole with these metal walls and stuff around you and so we had to take a drug test. So I'm like, oh fuck, I just smoked a 50 Rock on the way to work, right? So I jump in the car because I didn't have my ID and you had to have your ID to take the drug test, and I got back to the house and I made this elaborate story up that my grandmother had died in Oregon and I had to go back to Oregon to be with her, you know. And so I could escape trying to do that drug test. And then that lie fell through, and then they ended up putting me through some rehab in Birmingham that I really didn't know how to take seriously, went to A, and that exposed me to Narcotics Anonymous and started going to Narcotics Anonymous, but together with my son's mother.

Michael: 21:41

We were just like one wants to be good, the other is going to be bad, vice versa. You know, we played off each other on that and we could just never make a go of it because we were our own worst enemies together, you know. So we moved back. We ended up leaving my son there. I remember that day was real sad and my dog and moved just went to Idaho, I guess, or no. We went to Oregon first and my dad knew that I had these charges right and so he called the cops and the cops met us at the bus station. Supposedly they thought I had a gun or something which I didn't have a gun. They were like get on the ground, you know, let me check him, check his bag for a gun.

Michael: 22:16

And so I ended up going to jail there and then I was extradited back to Idaho where these problems had occurred, and then my dad, you know, hired an attorney for me and a really expensive, badass attorney. And I learned at that point in time, if you have enough money in the state system, you can kind of buy your way out of trouble, because I was pretty guilty of what they charged me of and then got lowered to, you know, misdemeanors and the judge is like asking during that time the judge is asking the prosecuting attorneys you're agreeing to this? You know my attorney's just sitting there like a big dog, like yeah, yeah, you know they all go out to coffee and pull favors for each other and it's so BS. You know what.

Todd: 22:53

I mean Sure yeah.

Michael: 22:54

But anyway, I got out of that situation and got out of jail. Got out of jail and it was. I met my probation officer one time and I'm like fuck this Right. So. And then I just hit the ground, running doing drugs, dealing drugs. And then, before you know it, I was working with a group of people, just a small group of people, but the FBI had this 27 count, 27 different people under investigations for seven years before I even came into the picture. And I was only in that picture for like seven months. So, but in that seven months period of time I got out of jail, I didn't have a cell phone, got a cell phone and by the end of that seven months, you know I'm selling, you know, 10 pounds of meth a week, six pounds of Coke and multiple pounds of marijuana, you know.

Michael: 23:38

So it went, it just exploded and they like, when they arrested us, the people above us told on us, they got them first and they told on all of their customers. So there was really nothing to dispute. Like, yeah, you know, they knew my dog's name, they knew everywhere I went. They said we know you'd start at one. You start at one side of the city and by the time you ended up the other side of the city, there was drugs every fucking where, you know. So I was a big problem in that community and, uh, yeah, it was like when, when they arrested me, I was so unhappy though it was a lot of fun when you're just doing a pound here and there, right you, it doesn't matter how much you do, you can still you still have plenty, right, it'd be nothing to leave a couple ounces to a girlfriend at the time and have fun with your friends. And they come back and they're all just tweaked to the gills, you know, and still have an ounce of meth left and usually got another four pounds, you know.

Todd: 24:27

I feel horrible right now because you're telling me all this and the one thing I can't get past is they knew your dog's name.

Michael: 24:33

Yeah, they knew my dog's name.

Todd: 24:35

Like. What do you, what do you think that's like? Like from the FBI's perspective?

Michael: 24:39

Like it had to be the funnest thing ever to watch me going around doing all this shit. Like after I was sitting in jail I was thinking, man, I was on the wrong fucking team, because I bet they have a good time chasing folks like me. You know, they have all the intel and the signs were really evident. You know, like there were several times like we'd stay in different hotels. We'd get one hotel, We'd have two hotel rooms. You know the drugs and money would be sitting in one room and then we do business in another room and of course nobody knows about that. But you know, I looked out across the building and it's not because I was, like, you know, all paranoid or nothing, but I'd see people on the roof here and there. You know I'd see people watching from across the field. You know it's like I always was able to maintain somewhat to be able to function in that, because it was nothing, you know, to have to be responsible to take 30, 40, 50 grand to my connection every few days, and that's a big responsibility, Knowing that if you don't there's going to be some serious consequences. So once you're in debt that much, you can't just stop, Because there was a point in time.

Michael: 25:35

This guy had a really sweet 65 Chevy truck. It was all lowered and beautiful, painted and all this stuff, and he was a hardcore addict and I was really unhappy. People around me are getting popped. People uh, get sending notes from jail saying, hey, they're asking questions about you. I'm like here's my chance. I could like just bounce with a couple of pounds of meth, get this truck from this guy and head to Washington.

Michael: 25:55

But it would have been the same shit, you know, and it didn't happen much longer after that when, uh, the DEA, the FBI, IRS and all that in the middle of a 10 pound deal, you know, busted us and I remember laying down on the bed when the door. So we were in this hotel room and I was going to go there to make sure the money was there for 10 pound deals, like 50, 60, K, Right. And so we were in there and the guy that I had with me was one of my connections. As soon as we walked in he flipped out two pounds of meth onto the bed, right, the two guys we were meeting with laid down on the bed and that was their signal for the people with all their automatic weapons and stuff in the adjoining room, combusting the doors open and you know we were under gunpoint with all these bandit task force and you know all the DEA and all that stuff.

Michael: 26:37

And I remember taking a deep breath at that time and just being so unhappy where my life was at, Just vividly telling myself this is my way out, I don't have to do this anymore, I'm done so that was a turning point, total turning point, and so all right.

Todd: 26:51

So at this point, you know, this is it, it's all done. Yeah, it's done. Like I'm free almost Almost, yeah, yeah, okay. I'm free almost Almost, yeah, yeah, okay.

Michael: 27:02

That was my way. I was trying to find a way out, but my way out was going to be I'm stealing, you know, $8,000 worth of drugs and I'm going to beat this guy out of his truck, you know, for a couple ounces, because he's a crackhead, you know. And then I was going to take off and I'd have some money through these drugs somehow to go someplace else and not do it, which is crazy. It would have been the same shit.

Todd: 27:27

Yeah, it's almost like there's a lot of traveling happening, but the main source of struggle is the thing traveling.

Michael: 27:33

Yeah right.

Todd: 27:34

Yeah, interesting. Okay, so from there they come in. Everybody's got guns pointed at you, I'm assuming.

Michael: 27:42

Yeah.

Todd: 27:43

They tell you to get down. Walk me through what that was like.

Michael: 27:47

So Of course, the cops stand up you realize that they're the cops that you'd been dealing with and they separate everybody immediately and they take me off to the side and I'm like where's my fucking dog? Because my dog was in the car, right, and they had taken my dog to the pound, and so they wanted to know if I had any more drugs, right? And I said I'll surrender what I have stashed someplace if you exclude the girlfriend that I'm with and if you bring my fucking dog back. And so they called the pound, brought my dog back, so I had my dog in handcuffs. You know, I was in handcuffs in the back of this Jeep, Cherokee, or whatever the hell it was, and they were taking me to the girlfriend's house so that I could get the drugs for them to surrender.

Michael: 28:28

Yeah, so they, they had already searched my girlfriend's house and and I had two ounces down in the garbage disposal all taped up you know where. It was waterproof, and so it was crazy. And so I had my dog. I was able to leave my dog with her. She wasn't going to be under arrest, because that's what I negotiated, right? And so I gave them the couple ounces that I had that was in the garbage disposal and my dumb ass is like asking begging if I could get high one more time. Oh man, yeah, it just wasn't enough. You know, never enough.

Todd: 28:58

And did they honor their word, though Like they didn't mess with her?

Michael: 29:00

They didn't hurt your dog Like everything's cool and it all started sinking in because like I had thousands of dollars right and like her power was turned off, I'm like what the fuck? Why didn't I have the power? You know what?

Michael: 29:17

I mean, and they're like started pointing this shit out and I'm like, yeah, things are fucked up. Man, you're right, you know, yeah, yeah, so went to jail and jail was crazy because, like, even though they busted all the top people from, from the top down, and they told on us they they knew the whole thing Right, and so they're like, oh, we know you do this, that, that, and part of what you get time off for is accepting responsibility and accountability for your actions, right? So in jail everybody was accusing everybody of being a snitch. When everything came down from the top bottom, from the top down, it's like, look, they already fucking know everything.

Michael: 29:44

What am I supposed to do? Say I didn't do that, so I can't get my points of acceptability out. You know, to try to help me for my sentencing, you're fucking crazy. So everybody was a rat, right, everybody accused a baby of a rat. So they had to keep us all separated. And then you know, other fellow inmates would try to get in on it and you know say, oh, he's a rat, that's a rat. And then it just makes it a hard time, you know trying to navigate.

Todd: 30:04

How long were you there for?

Michael: 30:05

So we were for like two years at least way over a year before everybody got sentenced and stuff, and I did a lot of soul searching at that time. I'd say I'd probably slept for the first three weeks because it was nothing to stay up for 14 days at a time I'd be up and then I'd have all these people that would be sympathetic to what I was doing, and it was probably because I had drugs so I could give them some drugs. But one of the guys was a taxi driver. He's like I don't care where you're at, bro, if you need me to meet in the alley with the trunk open and you need to get inside the trunk and I get you the fuck out of there, I'll do that right. So he was a trusted guy yeah and he had a family and uh.

Michael: 30:44

So anytime I know that I was gonna crash after being up 10, 12, 14 days, I'd call him, he'd take me to his house, he'd put me in a room Me and my dog would just stay in the room, sleep for several days until we woke up and just start the whole process over again. I remember having two cell phones at a time, you know, because everything's so shifty in that industry that I'd have one phone of people that I want to communicate with, and then I'd have another phone that is only going to be lasting for a week or two, so the people I didn't want to communicate with simply just didn't get my new number, and I'd split phones every week or so. So I'm in the back of these taxi cabs. My phones are ringing themselves to death. I couldn't keep them on charge. I got two plug-in chargers, one in the front seat, one in the back seat just trying to keep two phones going, and it's just complete chaos, man.

Todd: 31:28

Man, all right. And then, how old were you when that was going on?

Michael: 31:32

So that was in 2001. I think I was 22. Okay, something like that.

Todd: 31:40

Wow, 2001. I was in high school. Yeah, I was just finishing up high school. I was like 11th or 12th, 11th grade.

Michael: 31:47

Yeah, I was supposed to graduate in 96 and that never happened.

Todd: 31:49

Okay, all right graduate in 96 and that never happened. Okay, all right.

Michael: 31:57

So you're in county jail for Conspiracy to manufacture, possess and distribute cocaine, methamphetamine and ecstasy. That was the superseding indictment.

Todd: 32:06

Okay, and then you said was that the one that got lessened?

Michael: 32:10

No, that was something completely different. Okay, so that one stayed. Yeah, so that was a problem. Problem, right, because I had criminal history points.

Michael: 32:20

So when you get sentenced, they accumulate everything you've done over your life, right, and as far as criminality, and then there's a slide scale of how they're going to sentence you, right. So if you had never been in trouble before, chances are you're going to get under five years and you're going to go to a minimum security uh federal institution, prison camp or something where, like, if you really wanted to, you could just walk away, right. So I wasn't one of those lucky guys, because one of a couple of the charges that I uh had were, uh serious felony charges, like person-to-person crime. Even though they were reduced to uh misdemeanors, they still counted them as a felony right during the sentencing guidelines. So that put me up like 72 or 79 months in sentencing and so, yeah, they do it on. There's really no way outside of that. The federal system has like a 98% conviction rate. So usually when the feds come to get you, they already have everything they need to be able to prosecute you, you know.

Todd: 33:15

So am I, am I correct in in this? Like cause, I've never really heard too much about how this system works. You are in county jail awaiting a federal sentence. Yes, that's how that works. Yeah, so you were there for essentially two years awaiting to be charged.

Michael: 33:33

No, charged awaiting for court, awaiting for court, awaiting for court, awaiting for sentencing.

Todd: 33:37

So you were there for essentially two years awaiting to be charged, no charged, awaiting for court, awaiting for court, awaiting for court, awaiting for sentencing and all that, okay. So if you don't mind, walk me through that Like you've been in this system, this structure inside the county jail I'm assuming there was some form of structure there for two years and then they're like all right, you're going to court. Yeah, so they pulled you in and out several times.

Michael: 33:57

And you had a. You had a hearing for like, like, when you first get in trouble. You got a hearing and then you got another hearing where you go there and it's bullshit, they stretch it all out. You know. You have another hearing for this, and then you go there and then they reschedule it. So it's like they you're in the county jail and they shackle you up, you know hands and feet, and then take you out through the corridor to a van and then transport you over to the federal house where you go into another holding cell. And then you get to see the buddies you got in trouble with, you know, and some are cool and some aren't cool. You know they think that, oh, I'm this or that you know, or you're this or that you know, but anyway, yeah. So finally got sentenced and yeah, 72 months, and then you got to wait for them to come, us Marshals, to come pick you up. So they do that in a big rotation, so you never know when that's happening, right. So once you get sentenced and you're going to go, you know, to whatever prison they assign you to which they don't tell you, right? So they come pick you up and then they take you to.

Michael: 34:52

I think we drove to Salt Lake City and then they put you on Con Air. Con Air is a real thing, right? So it's a regular jet, right. But the back door folds down. You walk up the stairs, all handcuffed and shackled through the back of the plane and then sit wherever the US Marshals tell you to sit, and then they fly you to oh shit, where is it? Some other state? It's like a holding facility for the feds, where everybody that's coming through goes before they go to the prison they're going to. So they don't tell you until you get right, before you get on the airplane on Con Air where you're going. Right. So the marshals have a list, but they don't tell you ahead of time, so you don't plan a prison escape, right so right, and that's especially uh true to high, high, uh classified inmates like they.

Michael: 35:39

They really classified mine high. So when we were in the van they were like, oh, you're going to fci, which is a medium prison, and or you're going to camp this. And then they call my name and like, uh, you're going to, you're going to usp Atwater. And everybody in the van is like, ooh right, it's a maximum security federal institution. You know it's a penitentiary and where is that one at Atwater California? Wow, yeah, so.

Todd: 36:02

Was that a shock, like when you heard that, did you immediately know what it was? Or was it sort of like why is everybody saying ooh?

Michael: 36:08

Why is everybody saying, ooh right. So then I start asking around. When we were in the main complex, once everybody goes before they ship you out to the prisons, yeah, and just lots of stories about, you know, all the different race groups and all the violence and the craziness. And a prison guard got killed there not long ago and it's a newer facility. Once we figure out going there, you know, going through getting uh taken into the prison and then they make you stay in the shoe for a couple of weeks to make sure you'd have no hated. I don't know why they do gang checks or something. I was never in a gang so I don't really know. But everybody has to go to the shoe before they assign you a housing unit, right? So, um, stayed in the shoe for a couple of weeks and uh, then uh get assigned to a housing unit and every day scared bro, like of my own people, the skinheads are the worst, you know, because I always grew up like in a community that was pretty diverse and didn't know any racism, you know, but when you go into a federal prison, you know, like if I was to get caught excuse me smoking or sharing a cigarette with a black guy, the skinheads could come stab me. That's a stab-able offense, but yet they can do heroin that a black man smuggled in his butt into the prison Somehow. That's okay. So all these double standards that I just was never really used to. And of course, my best buddy was a bank robber from Compton and him and I would hang out, you know, and he was a good guy and he showed me a different way of doing prison time. That didn't include getting caught up in all the drama and all the different gang conflicts and stuff and, uh, got me a job in the education department and because I had that GED I was able to teach GED classes. So you know I was.

Michael: 37:42

I already knew at that point in time that I was changing my life and I was going to use that time to better myself, you know. So like my sister would send me Dr Phil books and I'd read the fuck out of that Dr Phil, you know. So. Like my sister would send me dr phil books and I'd read the fuck out of that dr phil book and I'd do a book report on it and how everything would apply to me or how I could apply, you know myself, to these principles. You know different things like that and you know used that time to try to repair the, the, the relationships that I had damaged. You know, like with my dad. You know I remember him telling me one time on the phone he's like the only thing, only thing you do to the people that you say you love is hurt them, let them down, you know, and so that really hit like a ton of bricks and I just, I had to take it and I had to reflect on it and I had to write about it.

Michael: 38:21

I wrote in a journal every day. I've been trying to find those journals. They're somewhere around. I got them stashed away but just like, okay, I have to own that, you know. And that's where I have to start. I have to start from that comment to rebuild trust and, you know, establish myself back as clean and sober, and just from ground one you know, and it was.

Michael: 38:43

a lot of my relationships were like that. My grandmother wrote me all the time bless her heart, she passed, but a really great relationship with my grandmother and I had maybe two friends that stuck it out through the entire sentence with me that are doing well for themselves.

Todd: 38:58

And how long were you sentenced for?

Michael: 39:00

72 months and I got so. Like the first three years I was at this FCI or the USP and what I learned is that it was a new institution, so they were bringing medium class people into the prison, jacking their points up so that they could get them there to open the prison and then start moving them out slowly.

Todd: 39:20

And I was one of those transitional people.

Michael: 39:23

So just like I never I only got in trouble one time. The whole time I was there for not making my bed on time and I took every adult continuing education class. I took real estate. I took check writing. I took a lot continuing education class. I took real estate. You know I took check writing. I took a lot of writing classes. You know I taught myself how to write while I was in prison. I didn't know what a comma was for or when it was used, but you know, my second year of being incarcerated I got a full two-page article published in American Songwriter Magazine. I got more space than Gretchen Wilson had that time.

Todd: 39:54

I was like take that.

Michael: 39:54

Gretchen Wilson had that time I was like, take that, gretchen, I'm here for the party. You got beat by the DJ Get while that good getting's good before that good getting's gone Right.

Todd: 40:00

Alright. So I'm curious about this Federal prison, what I perceive it as, what I've seen on Punisher.

Michael: 40:12

I don't know what Punisher is.

Todd: 40:14

It's like a Marvel TV series. You know it's like. What I'm saying is like television is the only place I've ever seen federal prison and I would go on record to probably say the majority of people that's all they know of prison. Is that? How true is any of that stuff to actually being in there and like what? Is that like day to day?

Michael: 40:36

So a lot of people always ask about people getting raped. Right, I never saw anybody getting raped. There was enough gay people to service the guys that were really interested in that kind of behavior. So that was never a thing. But there are definitely sexual predators there, and me as a skinny white kid, you know like there was one guy. His name was Clark giant guy. He's a must've been 400 pound black guy from somewhere, had the gold rim glasses and stuff.

Michael: 40:58

Well, you know the way I earned money while I was in there, cause I didn't have anybody to put money on my books to buy chips and soups and all that stuff was. I made greeting cards, right. So I'm a decent artist. So I draw greeting cards and color them up, put words and stuff in them, and every time I made one from him the currency is stamps or was stamps at that time, right. So a book of stamps was like six bucks, right. So my cards were like a book of stamps, right. So every time I make him a card for him, I'd hold my hand out to be paid and he would like take his fingernails and like droop them across my finger as he's setting the book of stamps. And they're just super creepy right. Yeah, that is weird, yeah, and I just did.

Todd: 41:37

I didn't want to deal with the business I'd like.

Michael: 41:38

Here's your card you can put your money here, I'll take my money and get you know so. But uh, just the racism is just like super, super awkward to me. You know you had like arian brotherhoods. You had, like, you know, die hard like um nazi group kind of guys. You had the bloods. You had cri. You know, diehard like Nazi group kind of guys, you had the Bloods. You had Crips. You had North Anios and Serenio Mexican groups and then you had Indian gangs and Asian gangs, right. So it's so crazy, like if you went and caused a problem with another race, that race is not going to handle it. The skinheads are going to come deal with you. Everybody handles their own race, good or bad, whoa, yeah.

Todd: 42:11

So it's sort of a way to manage conflict a little easier.

Michael: 42:14

Right. So the last thing they want is some black guy come smashing a skinhead for some dumb shit he did when the skinheads could take care of that internally. You know what I mean. Wow, to prevent race wars.

Todd: 42:23

So that was really weird. So you were like on your own.

Michael: 42:27

Well, I had a cellmate from Washington. He wasn't on, he was just a normal white guy, you know, not really on anything. So I was fortunate that he was cool enough to kind of teach me the ropes Don't do this, don't do that, you know, you know, do this. And then then my black friend Vaughn, you know, they just actually just got off federal probation.

Todd: 42:42

Seemed like there's a lot of, there was a lot of favor in your life in that respect that, like certain, like moments like the GED thing, turned out to be a super legit deal yeah.

Michael: 42:53

That really was a saving grace, because without that you're forced to be on the yard. So every new white guy that comes in there, all those skinhead groups, are coming right up to you to figure out where you're from and wanting to recruit you to go do work. And work is like they're going to send you on a fucking mission to smash somebody and you're going to end up in the hole and they're not going to take care of you. And when you get out, you know you might get more time for what you're doing. You know, just just, and it's like a degree of belonging, it's a degree of protection, and so I didn't have those protections, you know, because I chose to be an independent, which is a really tough thing to do in a maximum security prison. Wow, real tough Like I was an oddity. But Wow, real tough Like I was an oddity. But you did it, though, but I did it.

Todd: 43:33

Heck yeah, I'm proud of you. I did it. That's so crazy. It's cool to sit across the table from you, know nothing about you, hear your story and like I'm like rooting for you the whole time. Because, even though I don't know you, I'm like dude, but you did it, You're sitting here.

Michael: 43:49

There's a. You know what I mean it's like. So I remember one time like, uh, we have counselors that you'd go periodically to visit and see where you're at and they tell you to do what classes and if you don't have a GED you have to go through GED program. So the cool thing about that was that I was in the education department, I was teaching the bloods, I was teaching the crips, I was teaching all the crazy white guys.

Michael: 44:07

Every, every race came through there and I just treated them nicely and would genuinely try to help them. You know, get their GED so they could move on and get a better prison job that pays 20 cents, 20 cents a day or some crazy shit, right. And so when shit got real crazy on the yard as far as racially, you know, those different ethnic groups have come to my bat and say leave the teacher alone. He helps all of us. I'm like what that big motherfucker say yeah, I'm just, I'm going to my dorm, I got my bag, I'm going to the dorm. I don't want no part of whatever you got. I'm not looking. You know, I'm handling, I'm doing my thing, and it was a saving grace for sure. Like I'm so thankful my friend Vaughn for teaching me that opportunity to get by there.

Todd: 44:44

Was it really hard to like maintain that long term?

Michael: 44:48

No.

Todd: 44:48

It got easier as it went. Do you feel like?

Michael: 44:50

Well, I mean, I made my decision that I was going to do better for myself as soon as all those automatic weapons were pointed on me. Fair enough, yeah Right. So I mean, every day I tried to do something to better myself or the people around me, and somehow I didn't realize until later on that, you know, helping other people somehow helped myself, sure, you know. So that really put me in a position that I still do today. As far as giving back, don't get too good, don't get too busy. Always remember to give back. Yeah, that's good. Giving back unselfishly is the closest thing that I have felt internally to doing drugs.

Todd: 45:27

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Michael: 45:27

Yeah, yeah it makes the hair on my arm stand up.

Todd: 45:30

Yeah, it feels, good I feel a release of endorphins.

Michael: 45:33

You know, yeah, it feels awesome. And just you know, I'll forever be a drug addict. You know, even though I don't do alcohol or drugs now, I will forever have those tendencies. So here's a good example I go to get a dog right, come home with two. I got a welding hood, now I need 50, and I have 50, if not more. Sure or damn. If one truck is good, fucking five is awesome.

Todd: 45:56

You know what that is. I think that's passion.

Michael: 46:00

Tell my wife that I got a lot of passion, connie. Sorry, connie, I love you. I love you right now.

Todd: 46:12

And the reason I say that is because I'm very much the same way, even though I didn't ever get involved in the drugs, hardcore or anything. But it's like you're a passionate person and so, whatever it is like, if I decide I'm going to start drinking loose leaf tea like it's like I'm not just having a cup of loose leaf tea, I'm going to go buy the tea set. I'm going to get five different bags of different blends from all over the world. I'm going to figure out the best method to make it you know, what I mean.

Todd: 46:36

It's like I got to know how to do it right. That's the drive, and I feel like that passion is what it is. It can be a blessing and it can be a curse. It depends on what you're passionate about.

Michael: 46:48

It's definitely a double-edged sword. Yeah, definitely a double-edged sword. Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. So one time I got passionate about saltwater fishing and spearfishing, okay, and scuba diving. My wife's over there just shaking her head For those of you listening.

Todd: 47:00

Right now, connie's sitting in the chair, staring at both of us with this look and shaking her head like what is going on? Granted, she's smiling. I don't want to paint the wrong image. She's smiling, smiling. I'm in trouble. I'll keep my mouth shut. Sorry, connie. Well, good thing is we can't hear her. Yeah, she may be mad, I don't know. We'll find out afterwards. Yeah, I got to ride home with her. Let me know how it goes. Text me when you get home.

Michael: 47:27

I might be texting you from the side of the road, bro.

Todd: 47:30

Come get me All right. So you were there for 72 months.

Michael: 47:36

Well, no. So after being at that USP for three years, I did everything I possibly could to try to get a transfer right. And they tell you do this, this and this and this. And so I did every single thing. They required all these adult continuing education classes, staying out of trouble, you know, and just you know like while I was in there I worked for the maintenance department and so I talked my way into being responsible for keeping inside of our dorm area painted, so they would pay me overtime to do that. So in the evenings I just stayed busy doing shit that didn't require the drama of prison. So I'd be, like, you know, putting signs up and tape and painting all the railings, you know, and things like that. They let me keep my own painting supplies in there and that's where I worked, right. So I did everything that I could to appease the case manager, you know, and to try to get out of there sooner.

Michael: 48:29

And then I remember one day there was a guy banging on the counselor's door, because it's a door that's inside the dorm that you have to walk down the hall to go to a counselor, right. And so he's banging and kicking and just carrying on and screaming and cussing, because when you're in a maximum security prison, when you get ready to transfer, they cannot tell you where you're going, because you might plan a prison escape, right. So I'm like he's an idiot that we know that they're not going to tell us where we're going and he was demanding that, right. And so guess who had to go in right behind him.

Todd: 48:55

Oh, no yeah.

Michael: 48:56

So I go in there. He's like you've done great, you've done everything we've asked you to do. And I tried to put in a prison, transfer to Talladega, which is like 20 minutes from where my son lived. I figured if I could at least start rebuilding my relationship with my son that I don't know, really know very well through visitations, right. And so you know, I asked him, I'd really like to go to Talladega. You know, my son's grandmother has agreed to bring him to see me once a month, if you can do that, you know. And he's like well, I can't guarantee that. I'm like I understand, you can't guarantee that. I'm like, I understand, you can't guarantee that. So then I went back for my next meeting and he's like and the counselor was so cool because he knew I wasn't on any bullshit, I was there to do my thing and he's like I can't tell you where you're going, but let's just say you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

Todd: 49:46

So that was his way of saying that I got the transfer to.

Michael: 49:47

Talladega yeah, that's cool. That was like my first monumental achievement. Next to the full two-page feature I got in American Songwriter Magazine that I set a goal and that I was able to persevere long enough to make it happen Wow. So we got to go to Talladega and that was a big milestone, like for you.

Michael: 50:09

that was like hope restored, right yeah absolutely, and so I didn't know where I was going to eventually release at. I'm like, ah, something will work out, right, sure, something will work out. So I got to Talladega and boy, what a breath of fresh air, going from a maximum security to a medium security. I could like sit down outside and do my drawing and my artwork and have headphones on and not have to worry about somebody getting stabbed behind me or some race war popping off, you know. And it was just like, oh, you know, it's nice to be here, you know. And so that was a lot better place.

Michael: 50:41

And at that, at that program or at that facility, they had an RDAP program, residential drug treatment, or something Right. And so a lot of the people if you never, if you, if you never had a violent charge, you were able, I mean, you could take the drug program regardless, but if you had a violent charge, you don't get the year off that they offer. Ok. So I was looking forward to taking that program, right, not even knowing that I was going to get a year off, because I thought that I had a violent charge. But since it was a misdemeanor, you know, they ended up going ahead and giving me that year off and then so accumulated good time, uh, and the year off. I got out two years early.

Michael: 51:20

Wow, so it was about five years in prison, dude yeah.

Todd: 51:24

That's crazy, you know it's. It's awesome that, despite the situation, you you made a conscious decision when all those guns were pointed at you.

Michael: 51:36

Yeah.

Todd: 51:37

That you were like and it wasn't a normal decision. No, it's not, because you know, there are times in our lives, right, where we make choices and then we make like choices and you made one of those hard definite this is my choice, I'm changing. And it's cool to see that even when there were other environmental pressures and different things happening, you still were like this is my choice, I made it. I'm going to see this out. I think that's really cool.

Michael: 52:07

It's really sad because the recidivism rate is really high, you know, and and I understand why is because most people that go to prison view it as a vacation to learn, to further their criminality and to do to do the same thing differently but not get caught next time. So, um, honestly, I'd say there's less than five people that I ever met that I thought were there to try to better themselves and that most likely would not be coming back. Yeah, and that's out of a lot of people.

Todd: 52:37

That's like the definition of insanity, right? It's like you think.

Michael: 52:42

Well, even with the RDAT program, I didn't plan on getting a year off. I didn't know until the program was over that I was even getting it. But I was the. I spent all my life trying to be cool, always trying to be the cool kid, right, the young cool kid. And look where that got me. So I was like 180 degrees, headed the other way, like I was the dork up in the front row with a pocket protector and with the tape between your glasses.

Michael: 53:01

you know, seriously taking that program to learn as much as I can. So I never had to come back there again. I was serious about it. No-transcript, I'm never coming back, yeah, and so that's how me. That just hit me like a ton of bricks in that program, if I took nothing else from it. He made a statement one day. That what did he say? He says your two tests of freedom will be if you can do the right thing when no one's looking.

Todd: 53:43

Ooh, that's good.

Michael: 53:45

Yeah, and I'm like my entire life. I've done whatever I thought I could get away with. All I have to do is the right thing when no one's looking and life gets better. I thought I could get away with. All I have to do is the right thing when no one's looking and life gets better.

Todd: 53:55

And you know, I learned later that that's integrity.

Michael: 53:57

I didn't know what integrity was? Yeah, absolutely it's integrity. Yeah, I lived my life like that and life got real good.

Todd: 54:03

Wow, that's crazy. Okay, that one thing, so I'm going to back up a little bit. When you were at Talladega, did your grandmother come and bring your son? Did all that end up happening?

Michael: 54:14

So she came, yeah, and she would bring him, and it was a lot of like there's been. There were several months where she didn't come, but I would be able to call and then I could earn money and put money on my cell phone or not cell phone, but on my able ability to call out.

Todd: 54:32

Okay.

Michael: 54:32

So I would call, and every time I call, and he was just a wreck, you know, always in trouble, and so it got to be where. She would just want me to talk with him and tell him what to do every time he's in trouble because she didn't have any, like you know, no reward systems. No, like this is what's going to happen. No, follow through. She was a good grandparent. You know how grandparents are.

Michael: 54:54

They don't make great parents, and so that was the role. I'm super thankful of her to be able to be there to take care of my son. It's just a lot of problems were created by being a good grandma instead of a parent, and the fault of that is mine and his mother's, so I had to deal with the cards that were given to us. Fault of that is mine, sure, and his mother's sure you know.

Todd: 55:13

So I had to deal with the cards that were given to us. So so there's. Yeah, so you're, you're wearing a lot, of, a lot of that responsibility from not just the decisions that you were making them but, like, like you were saying earlier, about how it affects the other people around you. Yeah, what was the quote? One more time you said you read about oh, the instructor.

Michael: 55:29

yeah, your two test will for to freedom will be if you can do the right thing when no one's looking.

Todd: 55:33

Yeah, and that really is pivotal, right? Oh yeah To this whole story, to the whole story, because then you're like, okay, I just have to do the right thing, yeah, and then things will get better. All right, I want to hear that side of it now. So you get out. When did that?

Michael: 55:51

happen. So 2006, july of 2006. And so also during that time, I had been writing my sister, even from the first prison, and she was, of course, sending me self-help books that I actually didn't just look at, I actually read and tried to apply, and then so they would come as a family and visit me a couple times. And then she offered, she said, if you promise you're done getting in trouble, you can come live with me and my family in Chattanooga and start over. Tim can get you a job at the forklift dealership. And so I'm like great right. So that's exactly what it is. She picked me up. Pull your mic up a little bit. She picked me up in July of 2006. And I've always been a huge animal lover and I haven't pet a dog for years, and she had two Boston Terriers.

Michael: 56:38

So I just pet the hell out of those dogs all the way back to Chattanooga, man, and so she picked me up and took me to the halfway house in Chattanooga and I had to stay there for geez, I think four months, you know, before I could go on home confinement or home release, and that's a crazy thing. So it's it's, it's like a little. It's like prison. You know cause? Everybody's there, but it's not. They still have rules, but you could leave if you really wanted to, but you don't. You know cause.

Michael: 57:06

You have to go like through like drug treatment not treatment, but counseling, you know and do different group things, and the worst part was that you know you go to work and you have to be somewhere where the landline is, so they could call randomly and check to make sure you're there three times a day. Now I'm sure they do that through ankle monitoring systems now, but when I was out, you had to be by a landline, so of course my employers knew everything that was going on. I had to get a ride back and forth to work because I didn't have a vehicle, but you had to pay 25% of your gross earnings to stay there, and so it's like it's not like that anymore though, so you don't have to pay that. They take that money and put it in account for when you're ready to go to help you get up, right. So it's like, oh God, we just got out Right and then kick him, to kick a guy in the teeth and you know 25% of his, you know net earnings. So I had to do that, you know religiously.

Michael: 57:57

But how I kind of looked at my job as kind of like the education department back in prison. It's like, look, they're going to allow me to work as many hours as I want, right. So I started out this forklift dealership, you know, just sweeping the floors, because I didn't know nothing about forklifts, didn't have any tools, because I didn't know nothing about forklifts, didn't have any tools. So I started buying tools, and my first job was a manual pallet jack right when you take the arms and it lifts up a pallet. So go fix this. So I fixed that, and then, before you know it, I got a bunch of tools that I financed.

Todd: 58:25

Don't lie. You know you rode those pallet jacks around.

Michael: 58:29

They're so fun to ride. Oh, dude, I can do a gnarly burnout in a forklift, let me tell you so. Um, but it started out as I was the best shop cleaner they ever had and then, like, I saw that all the tile in the front office and show room needed to be buffed. So I'm like, hey, if you guys get a buffer, I'll come in on the weekends, you know, and I'll strip it and I'll buff it, so I create as many opportunities as I can to stay out of the damn halfway house, sure, and earn money.

Michael: 58:53

So started out, and I did that manual pallet jack and before you know it, you know I'm taking engines out and doing all this crazy cool stuff. You know, like I go out and they gave me my first van was to go take and do oil changes and stuff, and so I had to get special permission to travel around the tri-state Alabama, tennessee, georgia. So usually you're not supposed to be able to leave your district, but you know I'd done so well on federal probation officer. That's another story, a good story. But you know, when I ended up leaving that company five years later, I was the number two technician for electrical diagnostic computer software, rapid charging systems, acid replacements, cell replacements on forklift batteries. So I'd really worked my way up. And there's still the old heads that have been there for years, that never made it past PM technician that has had their entire lives just in five years, excelling way beyond those people and be like, look, you had the same opportunity. Man, I haven't got no favors, I've earned every dime that I've been here.

Todd: 59:52

Yeah, yeah, you took it serious when the opportunity presented itself.

Michael: 59:57

I don't know shit about computers, but if you show me how to diagnose this thing with this computer system, I'll figure it out right. So I made myself valuable, um, and I always had company vehicles, company cell phones, keys to the dealership, things like that, you know, because I earned it. But a lot of guys will be like I can't get a job because I got felony conviction, this and that, and that, just you know, wasn't really my experience.

Todd: 1:00:22

Yeah.

Michael: 1:00:22

You know you can start someplace, earn the trust, earn the respect and grow from there. It may not be where you want to start, Right, but you got to take what you can. And the only thing being a felon has not allowed me to do was get a visa to go travel to South Korea. Okay, that's the only thing. And then it got us pulled over in Mexico on the way back from Mexico and customs, and they searched our shed and asked where we were at, who we were hanging out with, what we did there.

Michael: 1:00:50

And by the time, like from customs to back, where they had our bags already pulled, I was just shooting straight with them yeah, let's do this that you know life is like this and that now. And by the time we got that, I'm like you're not going to do a cavity search, are you? And he's like do you want to? I'm like absolutely not. He's like I don't think that's needed, Right. So I've had fun with it, you.

Michael: 1:01:10

And then I use it now to go be a voice and speak at risk youth and work with kids three times a year and teaching kids how to weld and tell my story and tell them how they can keep it kind of glued together through welding and fabrication. I understand that not everybody either has the aptitude or the willingness or the want to go to college. And boy, they really screwed that up by telling everybody they had to go to college. You know, I think, that so many wasted hours, so many wasted millions of dollars with student loans and all that you know, to come out and not even be able to find a job in the industry they studied in.

Todd: 1:01:46

Yeah.

Michael: 1:01:46

And have $200,000 worth of college debt.

Todd: 1:01:50

So, on Ash and Iron, there are no such things as shameless plugs Like debt. So, on Ash and Iron, there are no such things as shameless plugs Like tell everybody about this program about.

Michael: 1:01:58

what is it that you're doing? Oh, so well, we haven't even got to the fact that I own a business now, so you? Want to start there and then we'll segue into the shameless plugs so I can back up. My sister was married to the general manager. That's how I got the job at the Forklift place.

Todd: 1:02:11

Tim, is that Tim?

Michael: 1:02:12

Tim okay, and they ended up going to get a divorce and he made it real clear there's no more favors from brother-in-law. But I never really looked at it like I had any favors. I genuinely feel that I earned where I was at, but anyway, I was supposed to have been pulled out of sale. So if I went to set up all the equipment at the Volkswagen assembly plant in Chattanooga and get that maintenance department going, then I was going to train somebody to take that position and the deal was I would go to sales to do that, right, yeah, so that was supposed to only be a year. Two years later I'm like, hey, man, I've fulfilled exactly what you asked me to do. Please send anybody you could. Uh, that has the aptitude that I could train to take my position, because you promised me a sales position a year ago and I'd like to do that. Well, that's right.

Michael: 1:02:54

At the same time as the divorce and they jacked around with my pay as far as my time cards and stuff, and I'm like you know what I said. So they didn't pay me one week. I'm like why didn't you have a paycheck? Well, you didn't have your time card turned in. I said no, no, no, no, anthony's supposed to come get my time cards every week because you took my company vehicle, right? I'm not supposed to drive back and forth to the shop anymore.

Michael: 1:03:16

And he's like, well, time card wasn't there. I said so you're telling me you purposely didn't pay me because my time card wasn't turned in when it's not my responsibility. He's like yep, I said okay, this is what we're going to do. I'm not coming to work tomorrow. I'm going to purposely not come to work tomorrow because you purposely didn't pay me when it's not my responsibility. We'll see how this works. I didn't go to work the next day, right? And of course you know they call me and want my keys and all that. I'm like I'll give you the keys when you give me my paycheck.

Todd: 1:03:43

Yeah, fair trade yeah.

Michael: 1:03:44

Oh you're going to do this and I'm like I'm not going to do any of that, you know. So they gave me my check, I gave them their keys and they fired me and I took. So during that time I well, I bought a house too, somewhere in there, right? So like I worked as many hours as I could when I got out of prison and a year and a half later I'd saved enough money and repaired my credit to the point where I could buy a house without a co-signer Nice First time FHA loan. So I bought the house and that was pretty cool. I picked the first house I could find that had a two-car garage and it was at the top of the hill.

Michael: 1:04:19

And I started welding because I wanted to build a couple of bicycles for my son and I some crazy rat rod chopper bicycles and built those together. And then I just never stopped and I kept buying and getting more and more equipment and asking for this.

Todd: 1:04:31

Passion kicked in.

Michael: 1:04:33

Yeah, totally Like when the welding hood was down. Nothing else mattered. I couldn't go anywhere because I was on probation. So I could stay at home and build cool shit, though, and learn how to weld. And I could have welded at Talladega. That had a welding program, but I had no interest in it at the time. So when I first started welding, the forklift dealership would give me small jobs to do and pay me a little extra to do them. And then by the time I was getting fired, I had just completed a giant trellis for Rock City.

Michael: 1:05:00

Three local artists were invited to put a bid on a permanent art structure, and so I went up there and I drew this two foot by three foot drawing of all these trellises and bench seats and planters and stuff. And the budget was 10 grand, right. And I'm like, oh man, I'm going to come in at $9,500 and get almost all that Right. So my my drawing, one right. And then they asked one of my friends that had done an art install up there a year later is he able to do this? He's like he can do it, right. So they called me and said well, you won the bid, you know. And I'm like he can do it right. And so they called me and said well, you won the bid, you know. And I'm like, my heart sank. I'm like fuck. I had my hands and elbows up underneath a forklift, at the place where they kill the chickens. I had chicken shit and feathers and stuff all over my hands and I'm trying to answer the phone with hydraulic oil on them and stuff and my heart sunk. I'm like fuck. Now I got to build this, this thing, right. So, yeah, it took 11 months. I worked every night and every weekend for 11 months to build this thing in my garage and had to transport each up there piece by piece and, uh, it cost I think twelve thousand five hundred dollars in materials to do it. So I learned some valuable lessons of what it is to account for materials, to bid a job, you know, and you know be careful. What you, you know, know, promise, cause you have to follow through, of course. But um to, the moral of that story is, I ended up somehow winning artist of the year through the chamber of commerce in Chattanooga for that project, and that was right.

Michael: 1:06:26

At the time I was getting fired from that forklift job, and so I took that, that um, that award and um went to a fabrication place and said look, you know, this is the equipment I have at home. I built this cool thing for Rock City. I just won artist of the year for it. You know, I'd really like to learn more about welding and fabrication. You know I have all the stuff at home I'm self-taught using and they're like come on right.

Michael: 1:06:48

So I had an instant job and I worked there for like I don't know two or three years until I realized it would be another five years before I had the opportunity of advancement and I felt like I had learned everything I could up to that point until that advancement and I wasn't willing to hang out for five years. So another opportunity to work in the fabrication industry building hand railings and spiral staircases and fencing panels and stuff came up. So I took a lateral. I didn't make any more money, right? I offered a two-week notice at that first place and I got to tell you that was probably the best place I've ever worked, where the owner comes out and asks if their company's treating you properly. Wow.

Todd: 1:07:29

I mean, I've never been asked that before. Yeah, so good people that's great.

Michael: 1:07:33

And so when I turned my two week notice in, they made me work 14 business days, offered me more money to stay. And I'm like it's not about the money, it's about the advancement. You know, can you tell me that it'll be more faster than five years before I can advance? And they couldn't do that. And so and I'm like, well, I have an opportunity to go learn this new skills set. You know, it's the same skills but a different thing, and that's really interesting to me and I'd like to do that. So they have been huge advocates of me. They constantly send me work. Anytime they retire a piece of equipment, I'm first in line to get it and they just like, basically, give it to me like stupid prices.

Michael: 1:08:09

And one of the brothers actually started his own side fabrication business while working the parents' business there and he's getting ready to go to ministry school. So he just gave me all his customers recently. He's like yeah, this customer does about 75K a year with me, so huge hand up. You know what I mean. Wow, just from never burning that bridge.

Todd: 1:08:28

It's that integrity too, that peace of just always doing the right thing, and the trust.

Michael: 1:08:39

Yeah, I mean he cares about his customers like I do. He's like Michael will, michael will do well for you, you know. So it's been nice doing some of his work too. But I was going to try to buy that hand railing business and the guy said he'd sell it to me. I'm like great, I'd like to have a business, right, yeah, but he was never willing to teach me the things that I needed to know to run that business. He wouldn't teach me how to draw, he wouldn't teach me how to do the blueprints, you know. He wouldn't teach me how to go out and measure. And I'm like I see you say you want to sell a business, but you're really not interested in selling the business.

Michael: 1:09:04

So there, was another opportunity that came up in the forklift industry where I'd be able to be a product support sales representative. That means I dress nice and I go to the office, I do all the quotes for the service department and then I go out and I try to get customers to sign their trucks up on service and things like that and I can produce sales leads. So I get little commissions here and there plus a base salary and I'm like, yeah, this is this, this will give me enough money to buy the last two things I need to start my own business, which was an enclosed trailer for my mobile welding and a $7,000 TIG welder I needed Right. And then that's the last. I already had everything else.

Todd: 1:09:39

Yeah.

Michael: 1:09:40

So as soon as I could afford that stuff, I got it and I offered a two week notice and they let me go that day Cause like, uh, I had a service manager that was like right above me and like I'd go in one day. I'm like, yes, today might be the day. He's like the day for what. I'm like to see if I get those five big frocks over at this place set up on service. I'm like he's like, and that's good. I'm like, yeah, he's like good for who Good for you or good for us that have to go do the work. I'm like, oh fuck, and I can't do it without your support. So if he brought me a customer, that's fine, but if I go find my own customers, he just viewed it as more work and he doesn't get anything extra out of it. It's just more workload on him. So it just wasn't a good. I understood real quick that, okay, I need to get what I need to get out of this company for my goal and then I need to quit and go do my thing. Plus, they had me at home in the garage building shit for all their forklifts and stuff. Like my day job was just in the way and Connie told me she doesn't remember this part, but she's like, if you can make $400 a week, you can quit your job. And because she had a job where she could provide our insurance and stuff, and I'm like, fuck, I can buy and sell stuff and make 400 bucks a week, right, what am I going to lose? Right, you know so I had a small enough clientele and I quit my job and started mobile welding that night.

Michael: 1:10:56

And we had a small building behind our house that I built for a temporary shop and that lasted about a year before the city came, gave me the pink card to stop doing what I'm doing in the backyard of a residential area because of the grinder noise. And the first time they came, I'm like whoa, this is my hobby shop. I have a job, I do forklift stuff, you know so. And the first time they came, I'm like whoa, this is my hobby shop, I have a job, I do forklift stuff, you know so. You don't see no forklifts. You know, this is definitely my son, and that was truthful. The second time they came, I had an employee. I had utility trailers strung all across the yard.

Michael: 1:11:24

You upgraded a little bit, it was a little hard to deny. I'm like possession man Can you just give me? They gave me 30 days to stop, so the city inspector was really cool because I was just shooting straight. I'm like look man, last time you came I swear to you it was just a hobby, right, I did quit my job and you know, the last 30 days I've started a business but I have a commercial property man. I need 30 more days and they graciously gave that to me. And then we moved into our commercial building.

Todd: 1:11:54

And I found that's probably true across the board. With most people it's like if you just cut out the BS, you just tell them exactly what's going on. Most people yeah, I was sitting there thinking like am I really going to believe what I'm about to say? I do believe it. I think most people, whether they're nice all the time or nice on occasion, are willing to be like I mean, he shot straight with me. Yeah, why not? You know what I mean. Like most people.

Michael: 1:12:24

So the whole social media thing has really been a valuable tool for me in my business, like Instagram. So we started writing. So, since I got real good at writing in prison and I'm like fuck, I wrote an article for this magazine. Why can't we do it for others? We got interested in rat rods, right, and so I had just built a rat rod and I thought for our listeners.

Todd: 1:12:47

What is that exactly?

Michael: 1:12:48

It's a modified vehicle. It doesn't have to be real shiny and painy, you might find a lot of rust and stuff on it, but it's still customizing a vehicle, I guess would say, without you know spending $2 trillion on it with a nice paint job, and you can go out and thrash on it and have a good time and not have to worry about putting a dent in it or burning the tires off and getting you know melted rubber on the back of your cab, like I had and all that stuff. It culture of unfinished hot rods, I guess you could say, or a mixture between art cars and hot rods.

Michael: 1:13:18

It's like you're doing it more for the muscle and less for the aesthetic, more for the creativity, I think. Yeah, I like that. So you'll take two different vehicles and put them together and make it look like something cool. Frankenstein, that's fun.

Michael: 1:13:28

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. So we started writing for Rat Rod Magazine. My wife would do the photography and then I'd do all the writing and we'd do special features of cars and then we'd go do event coverage and things like that. Well, somehow in the process of that I gained the attention of Robbie Wolfe from American Pickers. Wow, because we wrote for several magazines. We wrote for a magazine out of Washington State called Built Not Bought that no longer exists Old, old school rods. And so Robbie saw that I was.

Michael: 1:13:56

I did some work for old school rods and he uh wanted his 32, um car, 32 truck or something like that he had uh featured in a magazine. So, um, he actually uh brought us out to Davenport, iowa and put us in a really nice hotel like a sweet hotel with hot tub. And we brought up one of my wife's friends that was a model, a pinup, and we went and did a photo shoot with his car and we've made friends since then. So the automotive industry has really given us a lot of really great friends where we go, meet up and do different car shows and things like that. It was a lot of fun so that's very cool, all right.

Todd: 1:14:35

So, and things like that, it was a lot of fun. That's very cool, all right. So you are now owning. You own your own business. You pulled the trigger, you hit your goal. You bought the stuff you needed. I'm assuming you left that last company, started your own thing. What is your thing? What is your niche? What's the thing you're really good at, the thing you're known for, the thing you love to do?

Michael: 1:14:55

Probably problem solving right. So basically, how I look at it is a customer will call me, so I come in. Most relevant when you can't buy what you want, right, if you can't buy this super heavy-duty thing that you need, right. And I've tried blueprint work, I've tried production work and it's all really boring and having to build to somebody else's rules and it's you know.

Michael: 1:15:19

I adequate what I do, you know, with kids talking about Legos.

Michael: 1:15:23

It's like you know what I do is like playing with Legos and when I can't find the Lego I want, I just go build it right, so that one Lego that you can't find to finish your project isn't an issue when you can make them. So when we go to work with kids which is another conversation I always have a table full of Legos and I'm watching the kids at the table and if they're big enough to put a welding hood on them, I'll take them and bring them over to the welding table and let them start welding aluminum or stainless. And we've been doing that for about what? 10 years, at least 10 years, and it's been pretty cool because, like a kid will come when he's six, never even knew what welding was, gets exposed to welding the first time comes back the next three years, just all these all little jimmy's talked about for the last year's welding. So let's go see mike at the world of wheels, right.

Michael: 1:16:11

And so over a period of time, you know that kid gets into high school, he's in the high school welding program and then a couple years later he comes to parents and I'm like well, where's little Jimmy? Little Jimmy's off on the pipeline. He's got a brand new truck, he's doing great. He's got his own place. That's cool.

Todd: 1:16:38

So just that transfer of information and inspiration has allowed me to really positively impact some young men and women that never knew that this was an option for themselves. Yeah, and that's where the program really takes off.

Michael: 1:16:44

Right Is that you're empowering younger generations to find and discover a skill that really helped you to create your own, yeah, so when I get to talk to a large group of kids, I tell them about my crazy past, I tell them what life is like now, I share some of my finances with them, I tell them about a bunch of the different toys that I have. And I say I'm not telling you this to brag, but I'm telling you this that I was in federal prison not long ago and I discovered welding. That turned into a business, and now I have an amazing lifestyle. I travel, I have toys. You know this is how much money we made last year. I don't get to keep all of it, you know. But who else? Where else can you go to do this without a college degree?

Michael: 1:17:22

There's absolutely nothing wrong with working with your hands, you know, you know, if you know, if you want to go to college and you want to be a brain surgeon, probably a good idea to go to college. Right, you want to do an art major and think you're going to get out and have some kind of really great six figure income being an art major. Think twice, yeah, you know. You know you're young enough right now to try this and fail and still be good on time.

Todd: 1:17:44

Right, that's such a good. That's such a good point because time like, the older you get, the faster the time goes by.

Michael: 1:17:52

Well, not only that, the older you get, the more responsibilities that you have. You can't take those gambles. You end up stuck in a job that you freaking hate to go to every day, because you got a family to support, because you have no choice.

Todd: 1:18:01

Yeah, yep, it's. You know, I've had to do jobs that I did not want to do, that I physically probably shouldn't have been doing at the age I was doing it, but I didn't have an option. It was like that's what was in front of me and I've got a family to take care of and I had to, and I've I've been there and it sucks.

Michael: 1:18:22

You don't want that. My son and I still have this conversation. It's like you know. I tried to have him work with us and I was paying him way more than he could make anywhere else. Right, and I said but he was always the type that would try to do find the easiest way. And you know, he worked for me for maybe a year and he came to me one day and he's like I want to find a job that's easier. And I had to really bite my tongue and really think before I said anything, cause it really angered me and I told him.

Michael: 1:18:49

I said your entire life you've tried to find the easiest way to do things. I said look around you. Do you think that our lifestyle and what we have as a family came the easy way? No, it didn't. Seven day weeks, 60 hour weeks, you know I mean there's a lot of blood, sweat and tear and it was every day of five years before I had anything left over to even think about getting a toy. Everything went back into the business. Everything went into operating the business more than anything, because I don't have a business degree. So when I, when I go talk with kids now, I'm like if you think that you want to be self-employed someday. Learn from my mistake. Get a basic accounting degree so you know how to do QuickBooks right, cause that's 800 bucks a month to pay someone else to do and get a small business degree. You have the time. Take two years, go to a community college, just do those things A year on each one and then figure out what business you want to do.

Michael: 1:19:37

Yeah, you'll be so much further ahead than I was, and then maybe you would have more rewards before five years.

Todd: 1:19:43

You know, your advice to your son reminded me a lot of like Dave Ramsey. Do you know who Dave Ramsey is? Yeah, I know of him. He has this, saying that he says more so pertaining to money, but he says right now, while you're trying to get out of debt, you've got to live like nobody else is living so that later you can live like nobody else is living. And it kind of reminds me of that. It's like these seven-day weeks, these 80-hour weeks, you're doing that now so that later you can pay the people that are going to do that, if that's what you choose to do.

Michael: 1:20:15

And I don't feel like I'm building a legacy with my business. I've used it really more than anything to fund the lifestyle for me and my wife and my son when he was living with us. So my wife sacrifices and has to have a job dealing with the general public, and it's not always nice People suck to deal with every day, and so she's been at the same place for a long time and she has a lot of vacation time. So it's really on my agenda that she's rewarded with trips and things. And I'm still selfish sometimes and I try to make those trips. A lot of those trips are more based around my interests, you know, but we still go do things fun together and that's her reward for her hard work, for keeping a job so that we can have health coverage insurance.

Michael: 1:20:57

And you know she does a really good job at saving and I'm the guy that has the bad money problems. I'm like I make a lot of money. I can spend some money right, I feel entitled to it somehow, instead of just like stacking it back in a savings account for my bank. But I'd like to think I'm getting a little better. Baby D-D-D-DJ, you're getting good before the good getting gone. Yeah, up next is Savannah, savannah.

Todd: 1:21:26

I like how you went from Sierra to Savannah. That's so funny. Next is going to be Sabrina, so yeah, so, anyways, man, I really have thoroughly enjoyed this Same Like, more than I even thought I could.

Michael: 1:21:44

Yeah.

Todd: 1:21:44

And had no idea what to expect. Definitely did not expect to be sitting across the table from an ex-felon drug addict, drug dealer, strip club.

Michael: 1:21:54

DJ.

Todd: 1:21:55

Strip club DJ, strip club, dj. But I'm but wait, there's more, but I'm grateful that I am. I genuinely I hate this. I'm going to say something on air here. I hate when people come to me and tell me oh, you're gonna love this person. Like I immediately like, got this thing inside me. That's like they probably suck. I probably won't like them, but I'm glad that duane said that to me. He said when, when michael brandt leaves your house, he's like I promise you guys are going to be great friends and I gotta say something about duane.

Michael: 1:22:32

Yeah, yeah, go for, yeah, Go for it. So in my welding and fabrication online endeavors, you know like the ultimate cherry on the top would be to be a Miller welders partner Right. And so that's a really hard thing to get because everybody you know not everybody, but a lot of people would really like to have that opportunity Right, but a lot of people would really like to have that opportunity Right. So I went. The best way I could figure out to do it was I need to go to the trade shows. I need to go to the trade shows where the marketing, the people over marketing, are at Right and I need to go sell myself to them. I need to go build a relationship with them. So you know, we've been going to SEMA, which is an automotive thing out in Las Vegas, for quite a few years and they're always there. The main big waves are always there. So I went the first year and had a brochure of what my business does and talked to the lady, introduced myself and told her I'd love to become a Miller partner. I watched these other guys doing it and I felt like I had something unique, special and different to offer, Because we do so many different things. We're not just doing the same thing over and over and over, like a lot of companies do. So she said well, how many people do you have on social media following?

Michael: 1:23:42

I'm like, at the time back to the story Robbie Wolf was the one that told me I needed to get Instagram and I was like, pretty much anti, you know social media. And I'm like, okay, Robbie, I'll do it. And so glad that he told me that you know. And then so I told her I had 700. She's like well, that's really not enough followers to justify sharing expensive equipment and this. And that she's like work on building your social media up and come see me next year. So I did the whole year, man, I did everything I could to build my social media. And I went back with 7,000 followers the next time and she was like, ah, you're still not quite there. You know, we're interested, We've been watching your stuff, Right. And so I'm like, man, this is going to take 20 years. So plan B was to use LinkedIn as a tool. I'm like, okay, so I want to be partnered with Miller, so I'm going to try to make friends with every person I can find that works at.

Michael: 1:24:31

Miller through LinkedIn, right, nice, yeah, so Dwayne was one of those people. I didn't know anything about him, where he lived or nothing. You know he lived in Birmingham. I found out later but he was the first person from Miller to reach out to me and take me seriously, to come visit me to support me. He was supporting me with Miller equipment before I even had a partnership, and had it not been for Dwayne, I would probably still not have that partnership with Miller Electric. He's like these marketing people work for Miller and I think that you would be a great fit for Miller, right? So he went to bat for me. He pushed it through and made it happen. He's like we want Michael Brandt and it's just been an amazing relationship since then and I've helped him with a lot of things. He went through a divorce and he got real sick and I took him to the hospital and helped him move and just reciprocated as a really good friend and he's never forgot that, and neither have I.

Todd: 1:25:23

So anytime Dwayne needs something, I got you, bro. You know what I mean. One of those kinds of things. Dwayne is a special individual, and I'm learning this through you too. It's like. The people that Dwayne surrounds himself with is like a little tiny circle, like this he's very selective. And I'm honored to be in that small list of people, guess who got Dwayne into Instagram?

Michael: 1:25:40

You did. He was anti-Instagram. I'm like bro, bro, no, no, no, no, there's no bullshit. You get to choose what you look at. You know, and he's taken off with it like I did. You know, he's created a ton of opportunities for himself. That's cool and well-deserving rightfully so, Absolutely. He gives more than he takes, and I try to be that kind of friend.

Michael: 1:25:59

Sometimes, it's hard running a business and those favors always come at the most inopportune times. But you show up, man, because you know that person would for you. That's true, and I'm one of the lucky guys that have 10, 15 relationships like that. Most people are lucky to have one or two.

Todd: 1:26:15

Yeah.

Michael: 1:26:16

You know, and it makes life worth living.

Todd: 1:26:18

Yep, I've got about four or five guys in my corner that like no matter what, like I could call them up worst case scenario, and I'll throw my wife in there, five guys and my wife and it's like no matter what. It's like no matter how bad I mess up, no matter how big the situation is. I know they've got my back Like, and that's special, you know.

Michael: 1:26:37

I'd like, if we have time, I'd like to talk about one more subject. Absolutely, please do. Okay. So mentorship, oh, yes, so mentorship is really important to me and one of my best mentors is a man by the name of Von Hotrod. Okay, von Hotrod is probably one of the most famous automotive hand pinstripers. He does the pinstriping on stuff, right.

Todd: 1:26:57

Oh.

Michael: 1:26:57

I've seen that. Yeah, it's really a special art form, right?

Todd: 1:27:01

Yeah.

Michael: 1:27:02

So it took years for him to trust me enough to go get him a hot dog right, he's a celebrity, right, yeah, for sure.

Todd: 1:27:07

So he's like all the time.

Michael: 1:27:08

What does this person want? You know I'm a celebrity, you know this and that, Well, over a period of probably four or five years, of going to making a point, to go wherever he's at and asking him how do you do what you do? I want to emulate, you know, I want to be the type of person that you are, you know, in my industry, and just asking all the questions to where, like, he'll share a little bit of information. A year later, he sees me. He sees how I apply the information. Year later, he sees me, he sees how I apply the information. He gives me a little bit more right and so, like he's, let me shadow him at SEMA, which is a huge deal because he's going and making all these deals and you know stuff that most people don't know, you know.

Michael: 1:27:42

And then invited us out to his birthday party, you know, in California, and we just show up, you know, and when, every time he's in town, I, whatever you need, I'll come with you, I feed you, you know whatever, and just been, have been good friends. So he's the one that got me into working with kids. He saw something in me that I didn't see in myself, and that's my story and my amazing ability to be a craftsman and that I had something to offer the next generation. So he challenged me. He's like next year, come here, talk to Sonny, come to World of Wheels, set up a booth, teach kids how to weld. I'm like really. He's like, yeah, and so I did, and that's what I've been doing since.

Todd: 1:28:13

So if it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't be in that situation and remind me his name again Vaughn Vaughn Hot Rod, hot Rod. Yeah, that's his official legal last name too. He's had his name changed to that.

Michael: 1:28:23

Yeah, it should be If it's not. I was going to be so pissed, so insignificant that I just haven't even remembered.

Todd: 1:28:31

We don't want to know how about.

Michael: 1:28:33

I didn't even remember. It doesn't even matter. No, you're not that to me, you're this guy. That's awesome, right? So I talk about this with kids. You know, it's like if you don't have really great things in life and you strive to want more, find the people that have what you want. Ask questions, yeah, you know, apply that information, let them see that information, and then they'll keep sharing more and more. You came from a broken family. Well, guess what? So did I? So what did we do? We surrounded ourselves with people that had healthy relationships and we emulate that and we ask questions and we apply. Right, I said so.

Michael: 1:29:04

If your mentor is telling you something that you already know, be humble, listen, don't tell him. Yeah, I already know that, because what he was going to tell you right behind, that would knock your socks off and save you years of heartache. Yeah, you know, be humble, be listen, get the information. You can find the next willing, deserving person that can do something with this information and pass it on. And I have that now in my life with my, my employee, this 22, and like doing great and I taught him all his welding, and then I can kick back and watch him teach other kids and just again, that internal feeling of giving back unselfishly, you know, is just like one of the best drugs. That's not drugs.

Todd: 1:29:40

Yeah, bro, you're a champion. I heard this from Alex Hermosi yesterday. Literally, he said the difference. They did an audit of all the world champions in different sports, asking them all these questions, and then all the people who played sports that wanted to be a world champion but believe they could never be a world champion. And the only difference between the two they all had the drive, they all had the passion, they all had all of it. The only difference was the champions never turned it off, like there was no quit, like there was never any. Like oh, on the weekend, like I'm excited to go out to this bar and have a drink with my friends. It was it never shut off. It was like the weekend, dude, I can wake up and practice, I can study, it's like it. Just there was no off.

Michael: 1:30:25

Yeah.

Todd: 1:30:25

That was the only difference.

Michael: 1:30:26

Well, you know, when I took the, that commercial building was a huge undertaking. You know, failure really wasn't an option that made me work seven days a week, crazy hours where my wife had to bring me dinner at freaking midnight from Taco Bell just so I could make that next commitment, you know so there's a lot of that people don't understand. You know the sacrifices. How many times we've gone without money or groceries to meet the obligations that I've made to my employees. You know, without them I can't. You know.

Michael: 1:30:55

So a lot of people think, oh, you're a business owner, you're rich and just like this, and that I'm like no, we're not really rich, we have good credit, we have a credit line for when things get tough. You know that we can borrow against, but after a certain period of time there is stuff left over. You know, one of the coolest things about being self-employed is being able to take my dogs to work every day. How many people get to take their dogs to work every day? Yeah, you know, I mean, if I want to go travel and I can afford to go travel or I have enough credit to go travel and come back and get caught up the the uh being just being able to do that way out risks the negatives.

Todd: 1:31:28

Yeah, no, no for sure, and and you know what on on this podcast. I want to just take a second to highlight something you just mentioned Our wives and our spouses are detrimental to what we do, beyond what I think most people realize. Kp obviously I can't speak where like last night is an example of it. She left her lunch leftovers in the fridge for me because she knew I was going to be working into dinner and she had to go pick up the kids, and so it's like she's. I can't pick up the kids. I have work I got to finish, and so it's a partnership, like she's. Like you know what I'll go pick up the kids. I'll leave my lunch that I didn't finish here for you for dinner. I'll get them fed. I'll come pick you. We'll come pick you up, it's like you know. So I'll be working till eight o'clock at night, which doesn't sound like long, but when you worked 8am to 8pm and you're just selling beard products, that's a long day.

Todd: 1:32:25

And so it's like you know, and I'm so grateful for her and I always do my best to like give her that recognition. But it's like I just want to speak to the listeners. Like, guys, if you're listening to this and you're a guy and you've got a wife in your life and just take a second and stop and like literally reflect on that, that like your wife probably is helping out more than you've maybe given her appreciation for, Just take a second and show her some love, Like go rub her feet tonight and like make her some dinner and tell her order dinner. You don't even have to cook. Like I'm not even asking you to be an overachiever, Just overachiever, overachiever Same difference.

Michael: 1:33:04

Can we have a moment of silence for Connie Cool Beans?

Todd: 1:33:06

Yeah.

Michael: 1:33:08

Love you, Connie Cool Beans.

Todd: 1:33:12

And another moment of silence for KP. And another moment of silence for KP. But yeah, it's wives make the world go round. They really do, and I'm so grateful.

Michael: 1:33:23

I'm grateful you got a wife she'd be a better wife if she get into scuba spearfishing you need more passion.

Todd: 1:33:36

Get it while the getting's good. Get it while the getting's good.

Michael: 1:33:39

Get it while the getting's good, before the good fishing's gone, wrap it up.

Todd: 1:33:44

All right. Well, I think that is such a great spot to stop on. If you don't mind, can you share? Or if you want to share your social media, how do people follow? You see what you've got going on.

Michael: 1:33:55

So everything is GarageBound L-L-C with a B B-O-U-N-D. So we've got GarageBoundcom is our out-of-date website. We have GarageBound L-L-C on YouTube. We have a fishing page, soggy Doggy Fishing on YouTube. Both those channels are both on Instagram TikTok and Michael.

Todd: 1:34:18

Brandt on LinkedIn. All right, you guys heard it from the man himself, michael Brandt. Thank you so much, brother, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Michael: 1:34:24

Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it, yeah.

Todd: 1:34:26

I consider you a friend. After hearing that whole story, there's no way we can't be friends. I will definitely be keeping in touch with you. Sounds great. Do you want to nominate the next guest live on the show, or would you rather do that in private?

Michael: 1:34:37

No, no, I already asked for permission, just like Dwayne did. Okay, yeah, my friend, ian L, is that a Chattanooga?

Todd: 1:34:44

Ian L. How do you spell his last name? A-l-e.

Michael: 1:34:56

Oh, like ale, relatively new friend over the last year, but he has a similar story that I do. I'm sure it's completely different. He's a really reserved person. So when he calls me friend I really appreciate that, because I don't think he has many real friends that he can trust. And so he's how I got my boat that I'm in love with and he's been a good friend. Nice, all right. Well, I will definitely hit with and he's been a good friend.

Todd: 1:35:14

Nice. All right, Well, I will definitely hit him up. I'll get his contact information from you, Connie. It was a pleasure to meet you guys and thank you for being a part.

Michael: 1:35:23

No, thank you, thank you. Yeah, well, that good getting's good before that good getting's gone, gone, gone.

Todd: 1:35:29

I'm going to end it on that.