Speaker 1: 0:20

All right guys, welcome to episode four of Ash and Iron. I've got a wonderful guest with me today. I want you to go ahead and just introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Man, thanks for having me. My name's Ian Ale. I'm 37 years old, tall, dark and funny looking, and we're just here to talk. We're just here to talk. I grew up in Chattanooga, I spent my life there, and where do we go from there? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:58

So what do you do right now? What do you do for a living? What's your life look like day to day.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Day to day. So I'm a carpenter, I do contracting, we build houses, we remodel houses Basically. If you want it, we'll build it. Nice Tree houses those are the most fun.

Speaker 1: 1:18

What You've actually built tree houses.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Yeah, absolutely, how many Three?

Speaker 1: 1:22

Dude, that's epic.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Yeah, they. How many? Three Dude? That's epic. Yeah, they're fun. Whatever you want us to build, we try to help you bring your dream to life, that's great and do you have a business or you work for someone else?

Speaker 1: 1:35

Like, what does that look like?

Speaker 2: 1:37

So I work with Baldry Home Improvement.

Speaker 1: 1:41

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:41

And then we have a property management um aspect to the job to uh work for an investor out of nashville and basically just anything. Yeah, if it, when it comes to building things with your hands and just getting in there and doing it, we uh, we try to tackle it.

Speaker 1: 2:02

That's cool all right, so um? Do you have a family? Are you single? What does that look like?

Speaker 2: 2:07

I do have a family. Okay, I have two daughters. One's just turned 17 today.

Speaker 1: 2:13

It's her birthday. Happy birthday Happy birthday, damia.

Speaker 2: 2:16

I have a seven-year-old, taylor, and my wife, rachel. Oh, that's awesome. And how long have you been married, rachel?

Speaker 1: 2:21

Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:22

And how long have you been married? I've been married since 2019, October 13th.

Speaker 1: 2:27

She'll be happy I remembered that. You rehearsed it for the episode?

Speaker 2: 2:31

Yeah, I had to look it up before, but we've been together since 2013. So we've been together 10 years. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 2:41

No more than 10 years. Wow, yeah, it's crazy. Like the other day I forget who I was talking to. I said something like back in 2020. And then I was like, oh, that was five years ago. Yeah, that's wild to think about.

Speaker 2: 2:50

COVID was five years ago.

Speaker 1: 2:52

Isn't that crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:53

So where does time go? Well, cool. So, man, I'm super excited to hear your story, like to actually get to talk to you. For those you listening right now, we've literally hung out. We've had the most chaotic morning ever and the city showed up at my house, told me our electric would be out for four hours. So we drove to Nashville, set everything up here at the office in Nashville and then I forgot the power cord at my house. So my lovely wife drove the power cord to us and we just now got started.

Speaker 1: 3:20

So I've been hanging out with Ian all morning and avoiding any serious conversations, so like we've just been talking about music and television a little bit here and there and just like random stuff. And I'm genuinely excited to like, hear your story and like, and why you? Yeah, like why you're on Ash and Iron, and I say it that way because everybody who's nominated it's because the person that's nominating them knows a little bit already, right? So I'm excited that Michael came on here and nominated you. He's become a great friend. I really love that guy and his wife. They're great people, and so that makes me even more excited to sit in front of you and honored that you would be willing to come on the podcast. So thank you for being on. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's a privilege, absolutely. So, all right, let's do this. I would love to hear your story like wherever you'd like to start. You can start as young as you'd like, start recent and work backwards, quentin Tarantino style. However you want to do it.

Speaker 2: 4:29

Let's just jump in Sure. This is the hardest part of anything is getting started. Let's see, when I was in high school I was prescribed Adderall Okay, and I was on that for several years and it did what it was supposed to my grades. I went from a C student to an A student, got involved in activities after school, before school. It really changed my life.

Speaker 1: 5:02

So you had ADHD, adhd, yeah, okay. Yeah, I struggle with that too. What was it before you got prescribed the Adderall, before you were on it? Talk to me through like what, because, as someone who also has ADHD and I've actually never taken anything for it what is it like, going from the brain and mindset that you had as a person with ADHD? And then what did the medicine make you feel like? Or what did it do? Like how does that, what did that look like? All right.

Speaker 2: 5:30

So say, you're in a classroom, you're learning some science. If there's a window in that classroom, that's where I'm looking, because there might be a butterfly outside of that window and I might be thinking about what the butterfly is thinking about.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Anything but what.

Speaker 2: 5:49

I'm supposed to be focusing on. There could be three dots up on the ceiling that I think look like a happy face or something, Just couldn't focus on anything. And then, when they diagnosed me with ADHD, they put me on Adderall and man, I just loved school after that. I loved learning. It allowed me to get into what I was doing and it worked. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. So fast forward I start.

Speaker 2: 6:24

I graduated, I went to college at UTC and did well there for several years and I guess the beginning of this I said all that to parlay into how my life went from being well on track to hitting rock bottom. So I had a break-in at my house and someone stole some goods and they stole my prescription, Adderall. And I had a neighbor at the time who I told him what was going on. The police had came and he was like man, I might be able to help you out. I've got this other thing. It's kind of like Adderall, but I can give you some if you want. I was like sure I didn't know at the time. I'd heard what methamphetamine was. I'd heard what methamphetamine was, but I'd never even I, just I was like man. That's a hard drug, but I was desperate and young and stupid so I tried it and it wasn't anything like Adderall. Okay, it made a mountain out of a molehill, for a terrible analogy there.

Speaker 1: 7:51

Sure.

Speaker 2: 7:54

So I kept. I used the meth. I tried to. There's no responsible way to use meth Absolutely, but I would try to measure it out and try to make a dose that was comparable to the adderall, and I did that for six months, stayed in college and but it's not sustainable. I really fell into a terrible addiction with methamphetamine because it wasn't just about accomplishing things at that point, it was about getting high.

Speaker 1: 8:35

So let me not to interrupt your story at all, because I don't want to lose any of that. It's incredible. I can't wait to hear where this goes. But when you were dosing out you know the methamphetamines into like what you call like a comparable dose to Adderall, like was there any sort of additional focus or anything from that that you were like, okay, yeah, this is kind of helping me. Or was it just like, okay, this isn't anything like adderall at all, but I like the way it makes me feel. So I'm gonna keep taking it like. What was that mindset? If you don't mind me asking um well, there was.

Speaker 2: 9:14

There was a comparable dose, um, because they're both amphetamines, um, and I guess the transition started happening when, just like with anything, with coffee, with any drug, any substance, you start building a tolerance to it. So I started doing more and Adderall was covered by insurance, meth was not.

Speaker 1: 9:40

Right, right, yeah, yeah, I can imagine that being a problem.

Speaker 2: 9:44

And as a poor college student, I didn't have money for it. Um, so as my tolerance went up, my use went up and my ability to pay for it went down. So what I would do was, you know, just buy a little bit, and if my friends wanted some, I would give them a little bit, and they would give me a little bit. And if my friends wanted some, I would give them a little bit, they would give me a little bit of money.

Speaker 2: 10:09

I would pay for it. Like I said, it worked for about six months. This was senior year in college. At this point I was getting ready for graduation and I applied and they told me that I couldn't graduate because I'd missed a freshman level intro to computing class.

Speaker 1: 11:36

Ah what.

Speaker 2: 11:37

Yeah, and I was like I've gone all the way through college. I think I can do the computing. But the rebel in me just said, okay, screw this, I'm done. So I left college and let's just fast forward. Six months later, the DEA is knocking on my door.

Speaker 1: 11:56

Okay, hold on. Nope, we can't fast forward six months. How did that happen? That seems like it escalated quickly. It did so what? Okay, let me back up here. You're in college. You almost hit the finish line. A discrepancy in the system essentially kept you from graduating and you're just like that's BS. I ain't doing that, so walk me through your life there. You're no longer a student, I'm assuming, right, you're just living life, yeah, doing meth, yeah. And so walk me through that season, because that had to have been a hard thing. You've spent your whole career in college working for that moment, and then it's gone.

Speaker 2: 12:43

It was quite a transition. You know, I grew up in a wonderful family. My parents stayed together, they provided for me, they helped me out when I needed help. It was a Christian household, you know. It was a Christian household, you know, and there was all this shame that I felt for what I was doing behind the scenes, because I felt like I was living two separate lives. I was two separate people. After I dropped out man, I don't even know how to parlay into the next six months. They were dark. I saw things while I was using people that I had never thought I'd be around. It wasn't anything for someone to show up to your house in a stolen car, or I mean, the first time I saw someone use a needle was in my own house, and that's a scary thing to see. It's stuff you see on TV.

Speaker 2: 13:58

You know, yeah, that you grow up and you're like, especially when you're doing well, you're like I'll never be around any of that stuff. And then it's just one small yes, and then another yes, and then okay, well, I'll do this. And the next thing you know you're living in a hotel. It just happens so quick, you run out of money and you start. What I did was start brokering deals. So this is all leading up to the DEA. I had a friend who was not a friend at all, but he called me up and said hey, can you get me two ounces of meth? And I was like, well, I don't keep that, but I can call the person. So I did, and the guy will call him confidential informant. One which I found out he was later came and picked me up, took me to do the by, bought the stuff from the guy and that was the first count. That started the indictment that.

Speaker 1: 15:22

I had no idea, so they were tracking you at that point.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Yeah, well, they were tracking the guy. They were investigating the guy that I bought my stuff from. Okay, Got it.

Speaker 2: 15:35

So we would, rachel and I, my wife, we would rent an apartment or a house for two months, and I don't even know how they would let us rent these places, but somehow they did. And then two months later, when we didn't pay rent, we'd have to go somewhere else. Well, on our third house I get a knock on the door and that's when the DEA showed up and they were like hey, do you know this person? And I was like yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:08

And they were like, well, we know you and we have you, Like it's over. So they asked me to come in. They interviewed me that day down there in Chattanooga and, man, they told me things about my life that I didn't even remember. Wow yeah, they had really been looking for these other two guys that were in the conspiracy and that's what I was eventually charged with. It was a conspiracy to distribute methamphetamine, and that you grow up you're like, oh, I'll never go to federal prison. But, man, let me just tell you right now, it's so easy, it's so easy to fall into it.

Speaker 1: 16:54

You know what, what really stands out about, about where, what your story so far, with what you've shared, is like. I think people in general, we make this assumption that it'll never, that could never happen to me, because I've got a good family, I've got, you know, x, y, z, and it really just goes to show you like it can, like it can happen. You know what I mean, and that the variable isn't whether your parents are together or not. Happen. You know what I mean and that the variable isn't whether your parents are together or not. You know, the variable isn't whether you go to college or not. And I think that it's this is such an important story for people to hear Um, especially some of the younger guys and girls, if they're listening because it's like just because you've got your life together doesn't mean it can't, it can't happen to you, you know. So, all right, let me walk back through this. So they show up, they tell you they've got you, they charge you with conspiracy to distribute, or how did you phrase that?

Speaker 2: 17:53

It was a conspiracy to distribute meth.

Speaker 1: 17:56

Okay, and so they hit you with that. What happened after that?

Speaker 2: 18:07

you with that? What? What happened after that? Um, so when they approached me their goal at the time because was to turn me, to turn me into a ci for them to work, for them to get more people they told me that I was a target, I was the perfect hit. Perfect hit because I was this white guy that didn't look like a meth head, that could carry himself in school and I could go places that they wanted me to go. So I had never really had any encounters very few with law enforcement before that time had any encounters very few with law enforcement before that time. And so on the first interview I was like, yeah, okay, I'll do that. And then I ghosted him Because I kind of got to thinking about like, who's scarier, the DEA or the people that I have?

Speaker 2: 19:06

somehow got myself involved with. So I ghosted them, and you can't ghost them for long. They eventually find me, I went. They eventually find me, I went. So during this time, after they first came, I moved back in with my parents because I was essentially homeless.

Speaker 1: 19:33

Was that in Chattanooga?

Speaker 2: 19:34

It was in Chattanooga. Yeah, we wore out our welcome in every place that we tried to rent, out of money, out of hope, and my parents let me and my wife well, she wasn't my wife at the time, but they let us both move in, and we started to try to get our lives together, and it's a hard process. Part of that process, though, was getting my license changed to my new legal address, and that's what triggered the marshals to find where I was. Ah man, so I was out. I'd gotten a job at a really cool place in Chattanooga, and I get a call from my dad one day, and he's like hey, you want to tell me why the marshals are here looking for you? Because they had no idea I was.

Speaker 2: 20:37

I didn't tell him about my encounter with the DEA. I didn't tell him about my encounter with the DEA, so I knew I was hit. So I called him and arranged to turn myself in and I thought they're going to let me get away with this, I'm not going to have to do any time or go down that dark road. But it wasn't the case. So when I met with them, they put me in handcuffs and took me to Silverdale, which at that point was a private prison there in Chattanooga. As soon as I get there, I'm booked and they put me in the federal pod.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Man, let me just tell you, when you first go into a situation like that, first go into jail. It's, I mean, it's just you're, you're, you're on your toes, your eyes are open, you don't know what to expect because you know. The only thing I knew about jail was I thought people got raped and sure like violence. And and sure enough it was. There was a lot of violence, but within the within, for the first 10 minutes. Um, my co-conspirator happened to be in the same pod oh my lord yeah, and they.

Speaker 2: 22:15

They were under the assumption that I was the reason they were in there. Um, so, never been in a fight in my life, first 10 minutes in jail. He comes out of the woodwork and starts swinging um, I saw, you know. What do you do? Yeah, you got to fight back. You have to. Um, what?

Speaker 1: 22:36

do, you do yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:37

You got to fight back, you have to. So my first 10 minutes in jail went like that, and my next 10 minutes I'm already in the shoe. The segregated housing unit.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Okay, so I'm going to back you up a little bit and then we're going to get back. There's a lot of gaps and we're going to get back into this spot. When your dad I'm rewinding back a little bit, so when your dad is like, hey, why are the marshals here? And I can't imagine for you, right, you grew up in a Christian household your dad's now like what is going on? Were you the one to tell your dad like this is what I've been into, or did he find out? What was that like?

Speaker 2: 23:24

He knew that I had been struggling with something. He just didn't know what. And you know that feeling when your first love breaks up with you. Mm-hmm your first love breaks up with you, where it just feels like your heart drops to your toes and you're hollow inside. Yeah, that's what it felt like. I just felt all the shame of my existence come crashing down and it just it hurt. It hurt. I just I was like this is what's going on, like dad, I'm in trouble and it hurt because I knew it hurt him.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:16

And what do you do from that point? You know one of the reasons I ever got into? Yeah, it helped me accomplish the things that you know my brain was not trying to accomplish on its own, but what it did psychologically was I gave all my power, or attributed all my power, to the drug I was using, and not to myself.

Speaker 1: 25:03

That's powerful.

Speaker 2: 25:04

And it just sucked me in.

Speaker 1: 25:08

When did you have that realization? Was that later in life, or was that like sort of in prison?

Speaker 2: 25:17

It was when I was incarcerated. There's plenty of time to think, especially when you spend your first two weeks in jail ever in the shoe, in the shoe, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:28

That's not good, okay, so I'm going to fast forward just a little bit, not all the way back to where we were. You get brought in, they open up the cell. Is the other guy in there already or were you in there first?

Speaker 2: 25:42

He was already in there.

Speaker 1: 25:43

So when you looked in there and you saw that it was him, did you have that feeling of like, oh, this is not good, or did you think maybe he's going to be cool?

Speaker 2: 25:52

No, you knew it was going to be bad. It looked like a bull coming to gore me. I knew it was bad to be bad. I mean it looked like a bull coming to gore me. I knew it was bad right off the rip.

Speaker 1: 26:08

So I mean yeah, okay, all right. And so you get into that altercation and then they I'm assuming they assume you're the problem they put you in the shoe For everybody listening. Can you describe what that's like, or or is that something you're not allowed to the shoe? Yeah, I don't know how.

Speaker 2: 26:24

I don't know how that works oh man, I'll tell you anything you want to hear okay, um so the shoe was the most disgusting place I've ever been in my life.

Speaker 2: 26:33

They keep the lights on 24 hours a day. It's freezing cold in there. No one ever sleeps, um, so everyone's yelling all the time. There's no way to get any kind of rest. The first night I was there, someone in the tier above me broke the plumbing of their little toilet sink combo. We called them the chromosoccies because they were just these silver, nasty little toilet things. You get your drinking water and right like 16 inches above where you pee.

Speaker 1: 27:12

That's gross. Yeah, really gross.

Speaker 2: 27:14

Well, what was even grosser is when they popped that plumbing line it just flooded. So I was in the bottom tier and then you had to step down into where the bed was. So, by you know, in the next couple hours there was six inches of water in the bottom of the cell and I couldn't tell you when the last time it was clean, because I'm seeing like slime, no telling what kind of slime it was you know what I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:44

Hair from thousands of years you know, yeah, thousands of years of hair just floating around. It stinks, dude. But I'm just my first six hours in any kind of jail. I'm like where the hell am I? What have I gotten myself into?

Speaker 1: 28:13

Yeah, and for all you know, this was an anomaly. That's never, ever happened ever.

Speaker 2: 28:29

But from your perspective, it's like this is what I get to live in for the next. Yeah, okay, uh, so the water stayed in there for 24 hours and they wouldn't let people come in to clean it because it's the segregated housing. Uh, they gave me a squeegee at one point and said here you can try to squeegee out your cell. The guy that I was in there with that's a whole other story. He wouldn't say any words, but he would just kind of stand at the front of the cell with his hands down his pants, making noises. It was a hell, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:59

That doesn't sound like a real life moment. That sounds like a movie script. It felt like a movie script.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Like all, my worst nightmares about jail were coming true. Couldn't use the phone and this was it happened on December 21st 2016. That's when I went into jail, and I didn't know it at the time, but I wasn't going to come out for two years, so yeah, In that moment did you have like a pre sort of conceived idea of like how long you might be in there for? Absolutely not.

Speaker 1: 29:41

So that was probably even more miserable, wasn't it? Because, not knowing.

Speaker 2: 29:47

I felt dead. I felt or I wanted to die. I just wondered where my girlfriend Rachel was and wondered what my family was thinking, because they couldn't get a hold of me either. They tried to call Silverdale and because I was in segregated housing, they couldn't tell them where I was. They were like, yeah, he's here, but we can't tell you anything else. So it was tough for them too. And to put the icing on the cake here, in the six months leading up to it, when me and Rachel were trying to escape that lifestyle, she got pregnant.

Speaker 1: 30:39

Oh my gosh, and did you know that then?

Speaker 2: 30:43

Yeah, I did. I found out a week before I was arrested.

Speaker 1: 30:48

That hits different yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:51

I mean my heart's pumping right now just thinking about it.

Speaker 1: 30:53

Yeah, okay, so you're in there. Did they tell you how long you were going to be in the shoe? For no, all right. So there's a lot of unknowns here, right, and it's not just about your environment. There's a lot of unknowns of your outside life as well. Like what are my parents thinking? What is Rachel thinking? I've got a kid? Like, how long am I going to be in here?

Speaker 2: 31:18

How's my dog? Yeah, how's my dog.

Speaker 1: 31:20

Yeah, how's my dog? You didn't tell me you had a dog? Yeah, but all right. So what's next? What happens after that?

Speaker 2: 31:29

Okay. So they had to separate the co-defendants because one of them was in one pod, the other was in another pod. So I had to be taken to Bradley County Jail in Cleveland just to be away from them while the process of trials and everything else was going on. So they take me up to Bradley County and they always transfer you at crazy times too. Then you have to sit in intake forever. Jail is so cold it is freezing in there all the time.

Speaker 1: 32:13

Do you think all of that's intentional, like the time that they transfer?

Speaker 2: 32:16

you.

Speaker 1: 32:16

It's just to keep you guessing.

Speaker 2: 32:18

Yeah, it is, and the temperature is definitely intentional too.

Speaker 1: 32:22

keeps you chill yeah, like, like for real. Yeah, I, I worked at a psychiatric hospital. We used to keep it ac cranked in there too. It kept people calm.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yeah, yeah so bradley, county, um, I get up there, I still don't know the process and like how this is going to go, and they it's better for because I'm not in the shoe. They take me to court in a couple days. The arraignment, your first court date, where you just tell them I plead guilty, not guilty. They'll only let you plead not guilty at that time and then you just go back to county jails and just hang out and it's as bad as you think it is. There's so much because county jails are just catch-alls.

Speaker 2: 33:27

I was sleeping, so the rooms are like a glorified bathroom. It is your bathroom and where you sleep they're maybe 80 square feet and they had there's a bunk bed and then they would have two people on the floor so we would be four people deep in these rooms. And you know I don't want to be in the bathroom when anyone's pooping, but when there's four men in a cell all having to use the bathroom trying to get along, it gets cramped. One of my cellmates was there one week. He got released and he was back the next. His little pad was right next to mine and he was like yeah, man, I just, uh, stabbed my girlfriend to death.

Speaker 1: 34:23

I'm like where am I? Yeah, it's like why, why am I here with you? Like that don't even seem proportionate to the crime, right um?

Speaker 2: 34:34

it's just there's so much violence, uh, in the county jails, like I was watching a poker game. I never got into any of the poker games. People like to bet. People get in trouble when they lose money and start owing money. There's a poker game going on and you can't. The food in jail sucks, period, but you get, you can have, commissary, where, uh, you can get some ramen noodles or something. You'll pay like $1.50 for one pack of ramen too. We didn't have a microwave. We had a hot pot where it'll just boil the water for you. Well, this guy owed someone some money and one of the inmates boiled shaving cream, made this little concoction of it in the hot pot, came up behind the guy and threw it on his face.

Speaker 1: 35:30

My gosh.

Speaker 2: 35:31

And it was like napalm.

Speaker 1: 35:33

So he's trying to wipe it off.

Speaker 2: 35:34

He's just spreading this hot stuff all over him, he tried to wipe it off and he wiped the skin right off the side of his face. Oh my gosh, all this to just create the picture of this hellscape that county jails are, or incarceration. It's not supposed to be nice for sure.

Speaker 1: 35:58

I get that. So what's going through your mind? Obviously, there's moments of realization, right, like okay, I hurt my family, I've got a kid on the way, things have got to change. But there's a lot of uncertainty, so that makes things rough. It's hard to come up with a game plan when there's a lot of uncertainty but then, at the same time, you're in an environment where you're looking around and there's just a lot of violence, a lot of filth, a lot of chaos. For lack of better words, it sounds like Talk me through. What do you do in that? What do you do with all that information? What?

Speaker 2: 36:40

do you do with all that information? So basically, you're in county just during the process of either a trial or a pleading out and there's not really much you can do to plan in a county jail because you don't know what's happening next. You're in there with other federal inmates or soon-to-be federal inmates. The feds have like a 98% conviction rate. Basically, if they've told you they got you, they got you, and if you go to trial you're going to get like four times the amount of time as you would.

Speaker 1: 37:26

I see, yeah, you're prolonging that situation.

Speaker 2: 37:29

Yes, you're staying in county jail longer, you're prolonging your eventual incarceration. So there really wasn't much I could do. But I had money on the books, thankfully, to make the phone calls to check in with Rachel, see how the pregnancy was going. You do have a lot of time to just ponder, just to think about how you got there, where you want to go. There's just not much you can do to start acting on it. So what I did? I didn't have a criminal history which allowed me to get this thing called a safety valve which lowered my eventual sentence. Excuse me. So when it was all said and done, after we go to court, I get sentenced to a B1A. It's a Class A felony. It's the worst you can get. It's the same charge class that they give human traffickers and I was like for something that weighs less than a tube of toothpaste.

Speaker 1: 38:49

Do you feel like they were trying to set an example somehow, or do you feel like that was accurate for the charge?

Speaker 2: 38:56

In what way?

Speaker 1: 38:57

Well, for example, you kind of compared it to traffickers, so it's like, in one way, it almost sounds like this doesn't even seem like it fits the crime, and so it makes me think. Do you think they were just trying to make an example out of you by giving you a harder? You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Yeah, I don't think they were trying to make an example out of me. The guidelines are pretty clear cut this amount of this. Pretty clear. Cut this amount of this substance gets you this amount of time, mitigated by the criminal history and sure, all that. Um, and let me, let me first say this I take full responsibility for everything that I did. Sure, the problem was me. I was the reason I was in there. No blame on anyone else but myself. But I had a hard time reconciling the fact that it was never even mine, like I just brokered and facilitated things, but that's part of it.

Speaker 1: 40:01

that checked off the list, wow, yeah so you hear this charge right what goes through your mind.

Speaker 2: 40:10

I'm screwed. I'm screwed. I'm not going to get to see my kid be born, I'm not going to get to see her grow up. I'm not gonna be able to provide, uh, as a father. Um, I just, I just saw my hopes and dreams disappear. It's a hopeless feeling for a long time, but anyways. So I go to sentencing. They give me 41 months, which was great, and that was more than I, or less than I could have hoped for.

Speaker 2: 41:03

Yeah, yeah, because the uh, the charge itself carries mandatory minimum 10 to life and I was like 10 years, 10 years in prison, good, like, how do you go from like not ever being in trouble to getting a 10-year sentence?

Speaker 1: 41:25

um, that's minimum it's a mandatory.

Speaker 2: 41:28

You know what I mean like 10 to life.

Speaker 1: 41:29

10 is like best possible case scenario which is hard to fathom yeah, um was it the uh, would you call it the lever safety valve? Safety valve, that's it. Was that what got it reduced down to the 40, whatever it was.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Yeah. So if you the way they word it is if you plead quick and early accept responsibility and for me that just meant saying yes, I did what's on this paper, regardless if it was true or not If you plead quick and early accept responsibility and you have no criminal history, it lets you get the safety valve which breaks the mandatory minimum and brings your criminal history or your sentencing guidelines down. So I got 41 months and it was all kind of whirlwind. After that, like. I went back to Bradley County and I think it was within a week the marshals came and picked me up in the middle of the night again, took us on a bus down to Atlanta where we were classified and then sent on our way to where everyone's camp or FCI their security classification was and thankfully, with no criminal history, they sent me to a camp.

Speaker 2: 42:56

They're called satellite camps. They're they're really just there to serve the higher security prisons. A lot of them don't even have fences on them, but it's still prison, sure. So yeah, I went from hopes and dreams child on the way to federal prison and this all happened like within 12 to 16 months. It happens very quickly.

Speaker 1: 43:28

All right, so I'm going to rewind again just a little bit so you're able to have calls. You find out that this is your sentencing. This is what's going down. Find out that this is your sentencing. This is where what, what's going down. Did you? Did you get to talk to rachel after that to like explain to her, like this is how long they're telling me I'm going to be in for I'm going to be transferred to another facility, like all of that? And then what, what was that like? And then how did she handle all that? And like what did? What was that like? She?

Speaker 2: 43:58

uh, you know she handled it like a boss. Uh, she was really hoping that I would just get out, but that was a pipe dream. Um man, she really stepped up. She, even she went to the. She did so much for me. Um, she, she went to the prosecutor and offered to to turn people to inform on people, just to help me get a lighter sentence. I like Rachel as a pregnant woman. I don't know. I love Rachel. Yeah, that's cool man.

Speaker 1: 44:44

I hope I get to meet her at some point. That's really cool. All right, so she's handling this like a boss. She's like ride or die. I'm in this for the long haul, I ain't going nowhere, and so that's got to feel reassuring, right.

Speaker 2: 44:58

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 44:59

So you get transferred to the camp. Are you allowed to say where the camp was and what that experience was like?

Speaker 2: 45:07

Yeah, the camp was and what that experience was like. Yeah, the camp was in Edgefield, south Carolina, right outside of Augusta, okay, and it was hot, it was very hot down there.

Speaker 1: 45:19

What time of year was that?

Speaker 2: 45:21

Well, I got to spend several seasons there.

Speaker 1: 45:25

I guess I didn't think about that before I said it. Yeah, I don't remember exactly when I was transferred down there, I guess.

Speaker 2: 45:28

I didn't think about that before I said it. Yeah, I don't remember exactly when I was transferred down there. I think it was May or so.

Speaker 1: 45:35

Okay, so it was about to get hot.

Speaker 2: 45:38

Yeah, it was, if it wasn't already. Oh man, it stayed hot down there and the camp was great. Prison is, and the camp was great, prison is. You're still incarcerated. But it's so much different than the county jails Because, like I said, the county jails are catch-alls. There's people that come and go, there's murderers. At the camps no one had serious violent charges. Everyone had under 10 years to do. In the county jails it's all broken down by race. Just like in the higher securities you're really expected to hang out with white people if you're white or black people if you're black. But in the camps everyone knew they were short-timing, so they knew they were getting out. They had an out date. They didn't want to go back to a higher security prison. There was a lot of programming that you could do and a program called RDAP, which I did, residential Drug Abuse Treatment, which I did. Residential drug abuse treatment. Just there was a lot of opportunity for development and planning in the camps.

Speaker 1: 47:04

I feel like the camp. Was that a place where you started to feel like hope was being restored? I was, Because I kind of get that vibe because of the way you kind of described the county jail and the experiences there and now the verbiage that you're using to describe this place, it almost feels like you started to get some hope restored. Did they allow visitors? They did. What was that like?

Speaker 2: 47:23

And my wonderful wife and mom came down every month to see me. Wow, every month they allowed in-person visits so we didn't have to do it on a phone call. It's actually where I got to see my daughter for the first time, wow got to see my daughter for the first time.

Speaker 1: 47:54

Wow, did you get to see your wife while she was still pregnant there, or did she not get to come visit until after your daughter was born, not till after?

Speaker 2: 47:59

my daughter was born. The crazy part actually was so I remember when I was transferred now it was in August I got the call or I got the notification that I was being transferred and they took me down to the little holding room and I called Rachel. I was like, hey, I'm getting moved. And she was like, well, I'm having this baby, like tomorrow they're inducing me. So during the whole classification process when we went down to Atlanta, there was a period of like four or five days where I knew she had gone to the hospital and was induced and had the kid and I just can't get all over. So I get down to the camp and someone else that had a phone set up had to call her for me and that's when I found out that it went fine healthy weight, beautiful baby girl like a giant deep breath of relief, like okay, everything's good.

Speaker 2: 49:02

I think I just broke down. I mean, I broke down a ton of times rightfully so, right, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 49:09

so I want to hear the story of when you get to meet your daughter for the first time. After having gone through all of that, I want to hear what that experience was like.

Speaker 2: 49:23

Surreal. She had my dad's hands and my dad had actually just died in October, right before I was arrested. Oh man, I'm sorry, brother. Yeah, so I mean, and my mom actually got to cut the, cut the cord, so it was the best of a horrible situation. Yeah, it was, um, I got to hold her. Smell her.

Speaker 1: 49:59

Bro, dude, I saw that. Look, don't dude, for anybody out there that's got a kid. They know, they know what you mean. Like dude, smelling your kids when they're born like just little babies, like even their breath smells so good. It's like I don't even know.

Speaker 1: 50:17

And then they get older and then I don't know what happens, but it's like, yeah, there's something special about that and what's awesome is there's like almost like this underlying analogy of redemption, where your dad passes and then your daughter's got his hands and you weren't there, but your mom was there, you know, and it's like there's something very special about all of that and I don't even know what it is Like. I can't like pinpoint it and be like dude, this is the special thing, you know. But it's like it's a metaphor, almost you know what it is Like. I can't like pinpoint it and be like dude, this is the special thing. But it's like it's a metaphor, almost you know what I mean and it's a really cool thing. All right, so you meet your daughter, You're holding her, you're breaking down, like it's a very emotional thing. How's Rachel holding up? Like how's all this going?

Speaker 2: 51:15

so, um, she moved back in with her parents, um for the interim during this whole process and started working with her dad. Um and her family had a tire store, or has had a tire store, and he started training her to take that over, um, which I don't think would have happened had I not gone away. You know a lot of horrible things happen, saw a lot of crazy things, but god happened.

Speaker 1: 51:54

Saw a lot of crazy things, but god puts us in places that he knows we can overcome.

Speaker 2: 51:56

Oh, absolutely. Sometimes he puts us there because he wants to see us overcome. Um, and yeah, um, she, she had a very strained relationship with her parents up until the time when she moved back in. So that let her rekindle this relationship, build that trust, that family back up. Um, it allowed me to spend quite some time thinking about what freedom actually is. Time is the only commodity that we can't ever get anything back. Once it's spent, it's gone. And I remember actually laying in the shoe when I first got there, just thinking about how much I wanted to be out and how much I wanted to take the trash out. It's the little things. I want to check the mail, I want to sweep the driveway. It's not these huge life events like Six Flags, it's the small things. That's freedom.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Like, yeah, it's like I want to go cut my grass. Yeah, With my headphones on.

Speaker 2: 53:14

Yeah, I want to work.

Speaker 1: 53:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:18

I want to have a bonfire?

Speaker 1: 53:19

Yes, dude, I would miss bonfires so much.

Speaker 2: 53:26

They actually let at the camp. They uh people have these bonfires in the tp. Well, it wasn't a bonfire in the tp, but they had this. I know what you meant the uh, the indian population could go in there and do what they did, yeah, so that was every week, and I brought it up because you could smell it throughout the whole compound it smelled like freedom.

Speaker 1: 53:51

I bet it did so. You're at the camp. For how long? What's the time period you're there?

Speaker 2: 53:58

I'm at the camp for 16 months, I think so you were in county for a while. Yeah about 6, 7, 8, 16 months. I think, Okay, yeah, so you were in county for a while. Yeah, about six, seven, eight months yeah that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 54:15

Okay, so all right. So you get to camp, you're there. Do you have any like defining moments there that you're like, when you look back on it, you're like man, that moment changed my life or that thing I learned or that program I was in. Like was there a person there, a teacher, like another person that was doing time there with you, like was there things like that? Like that you feel like you know, looking back on it, you're like, wow, that was pivotal to like where I am now. You know.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So part of the worry about as you get closer to your out date is I'm going to be a convicted felon now and you know how am I going to. I went from about to graduate college and start a career to convicted felon, spending two years in prison. Lickety, split man real quick. So I was like, what am I going to do? And a man at my church, david Martin, got a hold of my mom because he was aware of what was going on. Everyone at the church was and he was like listen, I've got him. When he comes out, he's got a job. So that man that took so much pressure off. I was like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be okay, we're gonna make it work.

Speaker 2: 55:49

Um, so when I get out, and we did the halfway house for four months or whatever, and, uh, I start working for David Martin as a carpenter. Um, and man, I loved it. I just working with my hands was it's the best. You get to be outside, you get to build things, you get to use saws. I just it was a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 56:23

So I worked with him for that was the defining moment that kind of changed the trajectory of where I was going Him offering that olive branch while I was still in there wondering what branch I could walk on. So I worked with him for several years, ended up really loving it with him for several years, ended up really loving it. Uh did well and uh moved to another company, uh, two years later with a little better opportunity and yeah, I mean, the rest is kind of history, man. Uh, I still work with that same guy, mike baldry Baldry. He kind of took me under his wing and showed me how to be a leader, showed me how to contract, helped me, showed me how to handle subs and just be a good person, subs and you know, just just be a good person.

Speaker 1: 57:35

So that was probably the defining moment there. So I, I, what I love is that there there is a there is a heavy undertone of forgiveness and redemption that goes through this entire story, you know all the way through. And it's what was his name, david? What was David's name? David Martin. David Martin, it's like the fact that he was like I got you, like when you get out, like I've got a job for you, like there was no condemnation, there was no judgment. It was like people make mistakes. I got you, like you're going to you, like I've got a job for you, like there was no condemnation, there was no judgment. It was like people make mistakes. I got you like you're gonna, you're gonna have a job, and so getting out and working for someone like that, I'm assuming, especially after experiencing, you know, your time time in jail and in office, also at the camp and whatnot it's like getting out and having a job probably felt like the best thing on the planet.

Speaker 2: 58:29

It did it, did it, just took such a load off, and then having a job that I really enjoyed was the biggest part of it.

Speaker 1: 58:42

Does David still do that kind of stuff he does?

Speaker 2: 58:45

He does, he does. Actually, the funny part about it was like he loaned me out to Baldry for a job that we were doing together with him and then Baldry lost a guy and I was like listen, I can be that guy, Like we can make this work. I can be that guy, we can make this work. And there's just such a freedom to working for yourself. Don't have to clock in. If you need to take time off, you can take it off. I've met so many cool people doing this kind of work and then, just as I learned and got better in the trade, more opportunities opened up for me.

Speaker 2: 59:37

I got involved with the property management group in town, got involved with an investor here in Nashville and it just I don't know, man, God opened doors that I never thought would ever be open. And here's the funny part. So I told myself while I was in there, I'm like I'm going to get my degree. I got to go back and take that stupid class. I love it, Just to you know, spite them, Sure. So as soon as I got out, I enrolled back at UTC and I enrolled in the class and I get a call about a weekend before class even starts, like after I enrolled, from my advisor, she's like hey, you don't have to take that class, you can just have your degree.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

Yeah, how's that for irony and how's that for a blessing like that is. It is a blessing yeah, so I ended up getting my degree on top of all that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

Oh, by the way, one of the triggering events that caused me to just it's like oh, you know that block that you took out of the Jenga tower. You didn't have to take that out, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

I feel like it's a reward for making the right choices. Yeah, when you do what's right, things happen. Things happen for you when you make the right choices, when you make the choices God wants you to make, the hard ones, he opens the way.

Speaker 1: 1:01:17

I like that you said the hard ones, because I think oftentimes in Christianity it's like some people, I think, have a preconceived idea like God wants me to have. I think have like a preconceived idea Like God wants me to have the easy life and that's not really how that works.

Speaker 1: 1:01:32

It's like you sign up for absolutely the hardest life. Yeah, you know, to love the people that hate you, to pray for the people that are against you, and I definitely resonate with that and I'm glad that you pointed that out. God does ask us to do hard things and I don glad that you pointed that out.

Speaker 1: 1:01:50

God does ask us to do hard things and I don't know you very well, but I'm really proud of you and it's really cool to hear your story. Man, I can't wait because I would love to have Rachel on at some point, absolutely, and hear that other side of that story.

Speaker 2: 1:02:13

She's got a whole different perspective on everything, and a lot has happened for her and us in the past few years too. Yeah, I mean, it's not been all peaches and cream. Sure, actually, in 2023, her mom had a stroke. My and her dad found her, and two days later her dad died while her mom was in the ICU. She was in the ICU for a couple weeks and they had to tell her what happened. Thankfully, she's made a full recovery. She's okay now, good, good. And then, six weeks after the stroke, though, her brother Mason took his life. Oh my, so it's been a wild ride these past few years. There's been ups and downs, but that relationship that was able to be rekindled when Rachel went back to live with her parents and she started learning the tire store paid off because she had to step into that role at that point?

Speaker 1: 1:03:38

Yeah, that makes sense. That's crazy. So actually, you brought up a good point that I would love to ask you more about. When you get out and you are now back to the normal, or perceivably normal life of living with your family, you now have your daughter there every day and your wife. It's like what is that process like, trying to go from this life that you have had to adapt to, to try to learn how to get back into the normalcy of? Was it a pretty quick transition, or did it feel natural? Or did it take some work? What is that like? I always wonder that.

Speaker 2: 1:04:20

Are you asking about integrating back into tradition?

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

Yeah, just into what we consider to be a normal life. Is that difficult?

Speaker 2: 1:04:27

or is it pretty seamless I don't know, I don't, I, I have no idea what normal is, because there have been so many ups and downs, like I, I think my normal is like a mountaintop and a valley. Um, as far as just getting back into the groove, walking into a family, it felt very natural.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

Good.

Speaker 2: 1:04:52

And I'll have to say I'm blessed, I'm very lucky to have the support system that I did, because a lot of men that come out of incarceration don't have anything like that. They go right back to the neighborhoods that they came out of and there's crime.

Speaker 1: 1:05:16

It's like all they know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:18

Yeah, I mean. The recidivism rate is, I think, between 45% and 55%.

Speaker 1: 1:05:24

Wow, is it that high?

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

Yeah, well, it depends on your criminal history. Sure, yeah, it's 80, if it depends on your criminal history, Sure yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

It's 80 if you have a prior criminal history. Wow, and a lot of that is opportunity. I just I can't say I'm not privileged to have the opportunities that we've had in the support system when I came out but it just felt natural, it was something that I'd been dreaming about for two years. So I had all this time to create mantras and tell myself this is the man you want to be, this is the man God wants you to be, this is the man that your wife needs you to be and your kids needs you to be Like. So I created this image and I just I'm doing my best to uh, fulfill it.

Speaker 1: 1:06:20

Dude that's so powerful and I'd imagine time moves so slow in that environment and I'd imagine time moves so slow in that environment.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

Dude, dude, I had a book where I would journal and every day I would write the date and then I would write next to it the amount of days and hours left. Wow, just whenever I were to journal that night night. There's a lot of time to think in there. There's a lot of time to play guitar in there too.

Speaker 1: 1:06:53

So do you have your guitar in there.

Speaker 2: 1:06:56

Um, one of the coolest parts about the rdap program where I was was we had our own music room, um, and like they would elect people to like run the committees for this. Committees for that. It was a requirement of the program to be involved in different committees and I was lucky enough to be nominated and elected to do the music room there. So they gave me a guitar magazine. They're like all right, just order what you want from here for the music room. I'm like really.

Speaker 1: 1:07:24

Wow, that is a blessing right there. Yeah, all right, so is that where you learned to play, uh?

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

no, okay, no, that's just where I picked it back up, because when I when I fell off into addiction, um, part of being addicted to a substance is giving up the things that you used to love and only focusing on this thing. That is, giving you the feelings you want without doing the work to get it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:02

Oh yeah, I can see that it's more of like a gratification thing. It's like ah, this is giving me the reward that I would have normally gotten from doing all these other things. Right, but this is seemingly easier.

Speaker 2: 1:08:12

Right, I mean a lot of people that use uppers particularly meth, I guess are adrenaline junkies in the first place. Are adrenaline junkies in the first place and I think something like only 2%, like 2 in 100 people, successfully stop using methamphetamine, but most of them, after they quit, pick up something crazy like motocross or extreme trail running Something to give them that bump, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 1:08:48

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And then you know you got clean from all of that while you were in there. What was that like? Because you know you always hear and I just want to preface this first because you know, for context, you always hear about people who get clean and how hard it is, but it's like you're trying to do that also in an environment where there is nothing else. Like what is that like?

Speaker 2: 1:09:24

Honestly, it was easy for me. Yeah, it was, because it was a mental change. It was a choice Like do I want to live for this? Do I want to give all of my power to a drug that has, or any kind of substance that has done nothing but cause hardship in my life?

Speaker 1: 1:09:49

yeah do.

Speaker 2: 1:09:50

I want to give my time to the things that matter, um, and I gotta, I have to say that, knowing rachel was pregnant, um, with something that we created together. Yeah, that was it for me.

Speaker 1: 1:10:09

Dude. That's so profound Because it's both sides of it right. It's the negatives and the positives that you're looking at that are both motivating from different angles. You've got the positive side, which is your wife and your child, and then you've got the negatives motivating you like do I really want this to keep happening? The yin and yang wife and your child, you know and then you've got the negatives motivating you Like do I really want this to keep happening?

Speaker 2: 1:10:31

Like and so the yin and yang.

Speaker 1: 1:10:33

Yeah, that's interesting. I've never really thought about it like that. It's like there's hope coming from both sides, just in different formats.

Speaker 2: 1:10:40

It's all about your choices. Yeah, what's important?

Speaker 1: 1:10:44

What's important. So what would you say to somebody who is about to graduate college and has just one no?

Speaker 2: 1:10:55

I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1: 1:10:55

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, what would you say to somebody that may be in a similar situation? Like what would be your encouragement to somebody legally or addiction wise, or just maybe there's, maybe they are at the dosing of meth to replace? Their riddle in stage like not quite dea knocking on your door, yet um, that's a really deep question.

Speaker 2: 1:11:28

Uh, I think the simplest answer would be just to look them in their eyes and say you're powerful, you have everything you need already. Yeah, it's, it's in you, and just encourage them to find that power and feed it.

Speaker 1: 1:11:54

Yeah, and if you're listening right now, guys, and this is for real, like if you're listening right now and you've got like some form of secret addiction in your life, please don't keep going. Think about your spouse, think about your family, think about your children, think about your career, think about your spouse, think about your family, think about your children, think about your career, think about your life ahead, get get help. Yes, there is going to be probably a deep level of shame to in admitting that, but I feel like keep, keep going, and the pain that you create for yourself and those around you is far worse than the pain that you feel from admitting you've got a problem.

Speaker 2: 1:12:32

Yeah, pride, before a fall.

Speaker 1: 1:12:34

Yeah, and I can tell you, just sitting in front of Ian right now you guys can't see his face and I can just tell you the passion this guy has for his family is so good and he cares, and I can tell he doesn't want anybody to go through this. It's miserable.

Speaker 2: 1:12:54

Find someone, someone to listen. Tell someone what you're going through. Don't try to handle it all on your own. Reach out. There are people that want to help you.

Speaker 1: 1:13:16

That's true. That's 100% true. I know that there are people that devote their life to helping people like this, yeah, in this specific situation. Okay, so let's take a deep breath. That was a lot. Tell me about Ian, ale and Rachel and the family now. Like, tell me about what are you guys into now? What's, what's on the horizon?

Speaker 2: 1:13:44

We are as busy as we could possibly be. Uh, rachel's rachel runs the tire store middle valley.

Speaker 1: 1:13:52

Tire and alignment there we go, throw it out there. Man, give us the website. What's the middle?

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

valley tire and alignment. Middle valley road hicks in tennessee uh best prices in town there you go um, she also, Um, she also is the office manager at Cleveland City Ballet. Uh, in Cleveland, obviously, and that's where our daughter takes dance. Um, so our week is filled with dance classes, gymnastics work. I work during the days and some nights it's a heavy grind. And then on Saturdays we have dadder day.

Speaker 1: 1:14:35

Yeah, there you go, dadder day. Stole that phrase.

Speaker 2: 1:14:43

Not stolen, it's like I'm happy to pass the torch On the weekends. We just try to hang out and be with each other because, like I said earlier, time you only get it once and then it's gone. So we just try to spend time together, enjoy each other's presence. Even if we're just sitting in a room not talking, we're there together. That was the hardest part about incarceration just not being able to touch the people you love.

Speaker 1: 1:15:15

Dude, I know I can't speak for you, but I know for myself. As soon as I got out there, dude, I would literally not stop touching my wife and children, Like I would be so happy to just like be close to them. It would be like I want to sit next to them, Even when I go on little trips out of town, which don't even compare, not even slightly. It's like I get home and I just want to be close to everybody. Dude, that's so cool. It's super cool. We need to get our families together.

Speaker 2: 1:15:46

The whole time while you're talking.

Speaker 1: 1:15:47

It's like you're over here telling me about your problems with meth and DEA and I'm like we should get our families together.

Speaker 2: 1:15:53

It's wild. I feel like it's a dream when I look back on it. It doesn't even feel like it's a part of me, but it is such a big part of my story. I had to go through that I story. I had to go through that. I hate that I had to go through that, but I did, and it was all for a reason.

Speaker 1: 1:16:17

That's awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:16:18

There's so much more to be had in life.

Speaker 1: 1:16:20

All right. What's the five-year plan? What's the goal five years from now? Where do you want to see yourself being so? When you listen back on this episode, you go oh my gosh, I did it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:31

Headlining Bonnaroo.

Speaker 1: 1:16:33

Yeah, there you go, there you go With your guitar.

Speaker 2: 1:16:38

Yeah, there we go. You know, five years from now, I just want to be with my family. That's cool. We could be anywhere together Traveling somewhere or just sitting in a room with my family. That's cool. We could be anywhere together traveling somewhere or just sitting in a room.

Speaker 1: 1:16:53

That's cool. Yeah, five years from now, you'll have a 12-year-old and a 22-year-old. Think about that. That's wild. That is crazy. That's wild. That is so crazy. Oh, five years from now, we should say happy birthday to your oldest, because it'll be your birthday again. Happy 22nd birthday. Wow, that's funny. Well, I don't want to keep you any longer, any longer, and, man, I really genuinely appreciate you coming in and taking the time to share your story and all the crazy details that come with it. Thank you for your encouraging message to those who may be in a similar situation. And if somebody wanted to reach out to you, is there a social media or something? Some way they can do that?

Speaker 2: 1:17:52

Yeah, I'm on.

Speaker 1: 1:17:53

Facebook. Okay, how do they find you on Facebook? Ian Aile.

Speaker 2: 1:17:55

I-A-I-N-A-I-L-E, A-L-E easiest name ever.

Speaker 1: 1:17:57

I like that.

Speaker 2: 1:17:58

Yeah last name first, first name last. Dude, you have more vowels in your name than consonants. My parents tried to make it easy on me.

Speaker 1: 1:18:09

What's your middle name?

Speaker 2: 1:18:11

Taylor.

Speaker 1: 1:18:12

Taylor T-A-Y-L. Yeah, I think you're even right, even with vowels and consonants. That's awesome, ian, thank you so much. I literally can't say thanks enough. Guys, thank you for listening. Please go and check out all these incredible stories. These guys, they're not celebrities, they're not, you know, famous people. They're people with real stories, just like you listening, and if you have a story that you'd like to share, please comment, hit us up. We'd love to hear from you. And thank you guys so much for supporting what we do. We're just real men sharing real stories, trying to encourage each other. So, ian, thank you, brother, I appreciate you. Let's go grab some lunch.